Raising Wild Hearts: Conscious Parenting, Mindful Motherhood & Happiness Habits for Trailblazing Women
"Raising Wild Hearts by Ryann Watkin" is an intimate look at the messy intersection of psychology, spirituality, and relationships. Known for her insightful questions, honest reflection, and engaging wit, Ryann Watkin leads conversations with a dash of sarcasm and a whole lotta love. For the cycle-breakers, the change-makers, and the revolutionaries envisioning a more beautiful way to live, work, and play, Raising Wild Hearts dives headfirst into the heart of the matter with the world's leading experts and authors. Oh, and get ready to grow your book list because around here, there can never be enough books.
Raising Wild Hearts: Conscious Parenting, Mindful Motherhood & Happiness Habits for Trailblazing Women
Feminine Rites of Passage and Holding the Torch of Self Trust with Liz Vivian
Wondering how to turn the every day into something sacred? Today we're exploring midlife and adolescent rites of passage and everything in between. Liz’s life purpose is to help women and girls connect – and stay connected – with themselves. She is a guide on the Camino de Santiago, bringing women in midlife-ish to Spain and Portugal to experience the transformational benefits of walking the Camino. Liz is also a period coach and menstrual health educator who loves working with moms and their tweens and teens, especially during big transitions like puberty and menopause. And she’s also a mom. Liz and her husband are raising a daughter, who is 14 and stretching toward independence. They are a tight knit family who love travel, outdoorsy adventures, and good food. They live in Seattle with their big dog.
If you feel inspired please consider sharing this episode with a friend, writing a 5⭐️ review or becoming a Raising Wild Hearts Member here!
When we allow ourselves to challenge ourselves, when we open that up and we like take that first step, literally that first step on Camino, we like that like the feeling of trust in yourself can grow so much. And you get to know yourself and see yourself in a new way. And for me, that is so important in midlife-ish times because we maybe have lost ourselves in our work. We've maybe lost ourselves in our family. Our identity has really become about our doing and not who we are as a person. We've lost that connection to ourselves.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome back to the show. I'm so glad you're here. That was Liz Vivian. Liz is a guide on the Camino de Santiago, bringing women in midlife to Spain and Portugal to experience the transformational benefits of walking in the Camino. She is also a period coach and menstrual health educator. I sound I wish we heard so much love on their family. Liz's life purpose is really to help women and girls connect and stay connected with themselves. And that is definitely the true life. Cannot wait for you guys to hear this conversation with Liz Vivian. Hi, Liz. Welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. I'm happy to be here with you. I'm so happy to be here with you as well. And from where I'm standing, this conversation is really about rites of passage. Like it was a theme that kept coming up for me as I was thinking about all the places we were going to go today. And I'm curious from where you're standing, why are rites of passage so important for women and girls in our modern times, especially?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay. I love how you framed this conversation that we're going to have today, because my life purpose is all about helping women and girls connect to themselves and stay connected to themselves. And so rites of passage experiences are those moments where we have a chance to revisit who are we and what do we care about? And because we don't have a lot of those, at least in our modern American culture, we don't have a lot of those opportunities baked into our everyday lives. We have to really create them intentionally in our family, in our community, in our culture. And so I just think they're so valuable. I also think we can like maybe make them feel like they're more formal than they have to be when we talk about rites of passage. And so I think we get to name whatever that is for ourselves and our family and what feels really important to us. Um, but they are, I think, a really valuable moment to like take a deep breath, like I just did. Like you take a deep breath and are like, oh, this is intentionally what I'm choosing. This is how I want to show up in the world. This is who I want to be. And it's marking this moment. Maybe you have grown or you're about to grow. So puberty and perimenopause and the menopause transformation, like really bring opportunities to mark our lives with rites of passage.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So you just came right out of the gate with like my life's purpose. And I'm just like, yes, like all the rainbows and the butterflies and the fireworks, because that just to stand there, to sit there and declare like this is my life's purpose. It just makes me so warm and fuzzy. So for somebody here with us today who's listening and it's like, oh my God, she said she knows her life's purpose. How cool is that? And you know, to put a pen in this for me too. My life's purpose is to have meaningful conversations that will help change the world for generations to come. And it took a really long time to define that. How about you? How did you come to this statement, which I know will be ever evolving, right? But this statement of like my life's purpose. You sound so grounded and confident in it. So for someone who's seeking that, how can we, how can they find that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because that's a great question. So um my friend Tiffany Doofu reminded me, I don't know, probably five or six years ago at this purp at this point. Um yeah, it's probably five or six years ago that we had this conversation where um she reminded me that a life purpose is a choice, that it's not always a lightning bolt that just comes to you where you're like, all of a sudden I know my life purpose and like I feel it. And so I took that to heart. Like that made me feel like, oh, okay, it's not a thing that I am failing at. It's not a thing I'm just like missing or not hearing, or you know, I'm just not open to it, or what have you, that it's a choice that we make. And it, as you said, it does evolve. So for me, I it sort of walked through, I don't know, my 20s and 30s feeling like, yeah, I want to do good work and I want to be a mom and I want to make an impact in the world, but it wasn't really until probably my 40s where I got more specific about what that is. And I will say that as I was making a choice of where I wanted to make an impact, my purpose became more and more clear the more I started to pursue little inklings of it. And so I got some whispers of like, oh, I've had a career working on issues impacting women and girls. That has always been important to me. But my own journey around understanding my menstrual cycle, around understanding my menopause journey, and about understanding, and really my Camino de Santiago, my walks in the woods by myself, um really helped me clarify more and more specifically into your feeling when you heard me talk, like just that grounding, like this is what it is. And I feel great every day thinking about how do I live up to my life purpose, how do I bring that into all my different projects that are both family and work-oriented. So it's an evolving process, it is a choice, and it is about following those tiny little inklings that you start to hear, and then you start doing something down that path, and you're like, yep, this feels good, or like, oh, that's not really for me. I'm gonna go in a different direction with it. And you sort of like fine-tune, fine-tune, fine-tune to get to a point that feels really clear and solid.
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly what my experience has been as well. That it's as you take a step forward, you go, okay, here I am. Is this what I want to be doing? No, not so much. Okay, take a little left. Okay, now, how about now? Okay, and then it does. It clarifies with time and with the choices. I loved that you used that word choice, with the choices that we make every single day. So there's the big choice, right? There's this big life choice of how we want to live and our values and you know, the through line of our life. But we also have like hundreds of opportunities in the day of how we're gonna spend our time, how we're gonna love our people, how we're gonna, you know, do our work, how we're gonna show up in the car line, how we're gonna show up in every single, you know, moment. And so I love that you use that word because it is, it's not a lightning bolt. It is a series of conscious choices, if you will. So I love that. And I found that to be so true in my life.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing. I I want to add one thing too, which is that I think um it's also about listening. And for me, partly where my life purpose of helping women and girls connect to themselves and stay connected to themselves through these big life transitions partly came because I had really quiet moments where I could listen. And we don't often like give ourselves that opportunity. Sometimes we fill like every commute or every drive to school with a podcast, or we fill every moment with the like, oh, I'm checking in with friends. And both of those things can feel really positive and nourishing. And they also, we maybe are allowing ourselves some quiet moments to listen to whatever is coming to us. And so listening, I think, can be so helpful to connecting with your purpose and finding, like you were saying, like, what are those little steps forward? And then what's my response to that? You have to like take a moment to listen to that before we just like lead ourselves down all of these paths. So, like, listening is so key for connecting with your purpose and bringing it out into the world.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. How do you find that that listening piece shows up for you? Are you listening to like the voice of God? Are you listening to the cues that your body's giving you? Are you listening to nature? Like, what is it that you're like listening to? Because someone might hear that word and actually think literally they're listening for some words to be in their, you know, in their minds, which sometimes that's just like our little monkey minds, like telling us, like, no, don't do it, or this is the thing, or our over-analytical brains. So what are we listening to, Liz?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay. Well, I'll share for me. Um, I am a very movement-oriented person. I love to walk. I am fairly wiggly. Like I'm standing right now, um, because that is like a happy place, a happy way for me to be having a conversation. Um, so for me, walking is very meditative. I like movement and um then not having any other stimulus happening when I am walking and when I'm in nature, like that could be around the trees in my neighborhood, but more often in like more connected to trees. I have a path near my house that has water on one side and like a little forested park on the other, and that is an amazing place for me to listen to what is coming up. So sometimes that is my own thoughts. And sometimes it's I don't even know quite how to describe it. Um, it's like the little things I both like feel in my body. There's a little glimmer or a sparkle of something. Um, and I will say I have developed over years a positive relationship with my inner critic. And I can, you know, sometimes it's her that I'm listening to, and we need to have a very particular kind of a conversation, but I know where she lives and I know how to manage that conversation so that it is fruitful, and I don't let her bully me anymore, which it is a process to get to that point. So I will draw a distinction in um that this is a positive listening. It is not about my inner critic bullying me, and it is an openness to um for me, it's not God, but I could see how that's what it would be for some people, that it is this like um something bigger than me, which for me a lot of the time is nature and it's feeling like a connection to the world I live in and people. And it's like, what's happening when my body is moving? Also, I will add one more thing. As an extrovert, sometimes the listening is also talking, and it is like noticing how I feel in a conversation with a trusted person, my husband, my daughter, my friends, um, you know, a great um conversation like this. Every time I say something, I am listening to how does that feel in my body? Is that energizing? Do I feel more or less peace as I'm as I'm saying something? And um am I feeling like more of a pull forward when I say something than am I saying something and feeling like closed off and like uh that didn't feel good in me is another way that I'm like listening. I'm like testing out how things feel in me. So as kind of an extroverted kinesthetic kind of a person, I'm like, oh, how does it feel when I'm walking? What are the things coming to me when I'm near nature? And how does it feel to share with other people and like feel what that is in me?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You've walked the Camino de Santiago. What made you want to do that? How many times did you do it? And why that walk in particular?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay, great question. So I first heard about the Camino de Santiago on my first date with my husband because he had walked it a few years prior, and we were having dinner and chatting about travel and adventure and just like, you know, sharing the stories that you share when you're on a date with somebody that you might really like. Um, and so I I remember hearing about his walk 500 miles across Spain, thinking, what? I love to walk. And I love adventure. How do I not already know about this? How have I not already done it? Think and I it was in that moment where I was like, oh, someday I'm gonna do that for sure. And so it just captured my imagination, really, first hearing about my husband's stories about it and the opportunity to challenge yourself, to make friends along the way, and also to really travel differently. It's a different experience to travel when you're walking from town to town and farm to vineyard, and you're kind of just at a slower pace, I would say, of traveling. So it captivated me. And I had wanted to go then for years. Well, fast forward because I've had big jobs and I'm raising a child, and there's not always an opportunity to just go and walk for six weeks, but I always kept it on my list. And when I left my last big job in 2019, I as soon as I resigned in the spirit of kind of this big menopausal volcano of a no that just like came out like no, this is powerful. It was powerful, and um, I really look back as like that was the beginning of my what really was then like a five-year menopause journey, not just literally the hormonal piece of it, but um but a journey through that process of menopause, which is spiritual and emotional and energetic and physical all together. And my husband said, Great, we're sending you to Spain. Like you have to go walk, you have to go do this uh right now. And I still get goosebumps, like thinking about that and the amazing person that I share my life with. Um, but I went and I walked. My mother-in-law was going at the time, and she had said, Oh, everybody's invited. We were like, we have kids and jobs, we can't just go do that. And so I went and I spent days and days by myself in the woods walking. And I really like fell in love with it in those first 10 minutes, honestly. For me, as somebody who loves to walk and who um I just was like, oh my god, this is amazing. I am walking and I have my backpack and I'm just heading to the next town. And I showed up mad. I really like Ryan in those first few days of my very first Camino, this is in 2019, I just like marched up and down the hills. I was like, I was ruminating and I was just feeling like sorry for myself and sad and angry. And after maybe like four hours of walking on day one, those feelings started to fade. And I stopped at the place we were staying that very first night, and I read and I washed my clothes and I got ready for the next day. There's this very peaceful rhythm to being on Camino. I got up the next day and I walked and I was like charging up and down the hills, mad, but it faded faster. And the same thing happened on day three, and by day four, I was like, oh, there I am. Hello, Liz. Wow, I got all of that out of my system, and I had a true like reconnection moment with myself. Like, oh, there I am, and I am connected to myself and I know myself and I love myself, and that is what my very first Camino was for me. And I have now been back four times for even longer walks and shorter walks, and both by myself and with other women in midlife-ish, and they have all been very like transformative experiences for me.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. What do you think that anger was? What do you think that frustration was?
SPEAKER_02:I think that I might not have at the time I would have said I was mad at other people. I was um leading a large statewide nonprofit organization, and I had gotten to a moment where I was like, nope, I disagree. This is not what I am gonna be part of. And I was mad at myself that I couldn't make it be what I wanted it to be. I was mad at the world and all the systems, and I was, I think also this like big shift that happens with menopause, where we're like, nope, that's not okay, and I'm gonna start saying no. And you know, sometimes our truth is anger, and it like needs to move through us so that we're not just like holding on to it. So in hindsight, I can also see all of that negative energy as like some like not trusting myself, not feeling good about myself, and also feeling like I could have done some things differently. I not so much a regret, but like, oh Liz, that was disappointing. Like I disappointed myself. And so in the beginning, that anger felt very ego-driven, and in hindsight, it feels more like a new truth coming out of me, if that makes sense. Yeah. It was like now it feels less ego-driven and more like, oh, I needed to make some changes in a whole variety of ways. And I chose to do that in certain ways at the time. And in hindsight, um, those are all good experiences to have had, but in hindsight, I would have had different, like I have context for it now, right? We have that in our life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. When I first met you on Charlotte Albert's networking call, Connect and Collaborate, shout out to Charlotte for bringing amazing women together every Wednesday at 11 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. And um, so when I first met you and I heard what you do, I was just like, yes, please, yes, yes, yes, please come on the podcast. Speaking of listening, you know, um, and I had no idea what the Camino de Santiago was, but all I pictured in my head was like the book Wild, you know, the movie Wild, which I think too was like the Pacific Crest Trail that she did. And it was this big milestone moment for her life. I think she had just gone through a divorce, like she was kind of like coming of age. And I believe Daryl Stray was midlife-ish too, right? Okay, yeah. And so that's what I pictured. And, you know, I thought, okay, I haven't had too many rites of passage in my life. Like I've had, like, you know, my first, you know, period was not an event. It was not celebrated, right? And so that was a missed opportunity. And then having children, you know, that was definitely my biggest one. I mean, I remember after birthing my first child being like, my body did that. I mean, it was just this really empowered, uh, like hear me roar, mama bear. Like, I can't believe I did that. How do I even have the capacity to do that? And yet I did that. And, you know, I didn't have to think about making a baby or like analyze what she would be. Like it just happened. And and it just, oh, it blew my mind. And so that was really, and then of course, my my two kids after two were different rites of passage, but the first one, there's something about the first one, you know, the first, right? And it's we're talking about that, you know, that different, that that event in time where everything is different after. And and so that for me was that time of my first. And so I just thought that's me. I'm doing that. And I don't know when and I don't know how my kids are still young, like you're saying, like logistically right now, probably not gonna happen. But as soon as you said it, I was like, I'm gonna do that one day. I'm gonna do that. And so I'm gonna do it. I don't know when. Um, you know, not this year, maybe not next year, but soon. And so for somebody who is hearing those whispers, because now you've led many women, right, along with you in these walks, for someone who's hearing those whispers, what would you say to them embarking on this first like big journey that feels like a hell yes for them?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, first of all, I love that like the hearing of the yes, because as I shared about my first Camino was 12 days and it came out of that volcano of a no. My second Camino, I walked for 42 days, and it was this like delicious, self-affirming yes. It came from a very different place, and it was physically challenging, it was mentally and emotionally challenging, it was spiritually challenging for me, and uh yet there's a huge yes in all of that because it's such a gift, and so I would say to you and to everybody who's like, oh yeah, like I feel a little spark about that, to just keep affirming that yes to yourself and to find the little ways in your everyday life. There's maybe like a 1% where you're like, I'm gonna daydream about that for a few minutes. Oh, I'm gonna watch this movie, I'm gonna read this book, I'm going to just like look at a website where somebody talks about how they did it. What is giving you the goosebumps about it? And one of the things I talk a lot about walking a Camino is that it can be very transactional. You are walking to a destination, it is linear, and so bringing some like feminine cyclical awareness to what is a very linear counting the kilometers process is very important. And so I encourage you to think about um like why this is meaningful to you and how it is like bringing meaning to this bucket list experience is what I am all about. So we're not just like counting kilometers and getting stamps, both of which feel very good and are fun. Um, but how do you make that opportunity really meaningful? And so what's your why? What is your why for why you want to do it? And just keep connecting with that juicy why that is gonna spur you on because your why is gonna help you with training because it takes preparation to be ready to do this. It's really healthy for your body to be ready to walk eight to 12 miles a day, and knowing your why is gonna help you when things feel challenging, either physically or mentally, spiritually, being connected to why this is important to you. So that's what I would encourage everybody to like feel and think their way through. Why?
SPEAKER_01:Wow. So I've got tears in my eyes as usual. And I just realized that the thought of doing this scares the absolute shit out of me. And that's why I need to do it. And I often tell my kids there are two types of scared. There's one type of scared of like, oh, this isn't for me. I'm, you know, possibly in danger. This is not a safe situation. And then there's the other type of scared that is like, ooh, I'm really scared, but I'm kind of nerve-sided. And this is a challenge that I need to overcome, and this is for me. And that's how I feel about this. I've had such an intimate relationship with terror and fear since infancy. I was born into a struggling home with struggling parents who were, you know, perfectly imperfect. And that's probably why my soul chose them, right? And so this fear for me has been present for decades and it comes up in very inconvenient situations. And I'm like, oh my God, not this again. And so there's this um letting go that needs to take place where it's like time to go, time to go, fear, time like your job here is done. Like, and so there's this like dancing with that fear and putting myself in a challenging situation that feels like needs to occur. So there's that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yes, and thank you for sharing. I get teary thinking about it as well, and I get teary hearing your story because it is so like it's so you and it's so unique and so special, and you know your why. And it is also like really common. We, you know, we um because we don't often have those ways that we can safely challenge ourselves, and we can shy away from challenge, we can feel like, oh, that's not for me for whatever reason. It's pretty easy to say, oh, I can't, oh and so when we allow ourselves to challenge ourselves, when we open that up and we like take that first step, literally that first step on Camino, we like that, like the feeling of trust in yourself can grow so much. And you get to know yourself and see yourself in a new way. And for me, that is so important in midlife-ish times because we maybe have lost ourselves in our work, we've maybe lost ourselves in our family, our identity has really become about our doing and not who we are as a person. We've lost that connection to ourselves. And on top of that, through perimenopause and then the ultimate menopause journey, we are changing so much physically. We are noticing different things about our body and our brain. And we it can be very easy to lose connection with who we are. And so the physical challenge, the mental, emotional, spiritual challenge that brings us back to ourselves at a moment where we can feel really disconnected is very potent. And I think so much can spark for women in midlife-ish in those moments where we're like, oh, this is hard. Oh, this is challenging me. And at the end of that, you have a connection and a trust in yourself where you're just like, oh, I'm so powerful, like give me, like, I can do anything. That is how I feel at the end of a Camino every time. And that is what I want women to feel. That trust and that power and the joy, and like our heart full of gratefulness is like such a moment to achieve, but then like the possibility of carrying that forward right into the next, the next camino. We talk about you, you know, when you walk a camino, you are getting into Santiago de Compostela and you're getting to zero kilometer. You've been counting down whether you started at 100 kilometers or 500 kilometers out. You're getting to zero kilometer. And what I love about that space, like literally that place on earth, but also the spirit of the place, is that zero kilometer is both the ending and the beginning. It is the ending, it's your celebratory moment. It is the like, oh my God, I did it. I am amazing. And like, look at me. I did this. But then it's also zero kilometer for where you go with that and what's next for you. Um, I was talking to a friend yesterday who came with me on a Camino in May when I was leading groups of women, and she's like, Yeah, like I loved it, but I was so present in my Camino, I didn't really know what it meant in my life until I got home. And so that zero kilometer, you celebrate, and then it's like launching what is next for you, and that's where I want women like I that's my experience, and I just want people to feel that trust and that connection to themselves to then carry forward into whatever that is, their work, their purpose, their family, their community, um, to be to be connected.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. In what ways have your walks helped you be a better mom, a better wife, a better human?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, um first a better human in that I think I am a better human in um like being connected to myself, being uh in touch with myself and having a strong relationship with myself that is positive and supportive helps me like show up in the world that way. So that as I'm interacting to people and I'm thinking creatively about what I want to do, that's really important. Um when I went on my Caminos in 2019 and 2022, uh after I came home, I asked my daughter. So when I first went, she was in second grade. When I went, um, then she was in fifth grade. And so after um, after that trip in 2022, I asked her, like, hmm, do you how am I different after Camino? Like, what do you think? And do you know what she said? She said to me, um, it made you less stressed and more at peace with yourself. And she said, being a less stressed and a more self-assured mom has helped her feel more secure in herself. So I will say my daughter changes. Yeah. Yeah. Another woman who came with me um this May, she asked her teen son um when she got home if he noticed any difference in her. And he was like, Yeah, you're happier. So our kids know us and they see the change. Um, I will say that, you know, I feel a lot of gratitude for my husband and daughter for supporting me to do this work in the world, to have my experiences. And I think every time I come home full of gratitude, like, doesn't that make me a great person to live with? And, you know, um, how to show up as a really positive, supportive wife and mother, because those roles are very important to me. My husband and daughter were a very tight-knit little triangle, you know, in our in our family. And um they're they're my favorites. So I want to be a good human for myself and for the world and also for them. Um, I think the other thing I will say is that uh the Camino has given me lots of time to listen for my purpose and to have conversations with myself about what's important to me and how I want to bring my purpose out into the world. So it's an opportunity for creative thinking because when we get maybe dysregulated or off our game in our everyday life, and we're just sort of like, life is full, I'm doing one thing and then the next thing, the opportunity to rest and refresh on Camino gives some space to be creative and to settle your nervous system because you're in nature every day. And to because we take such good care of you, you have time to rest and reflect and refresh. And that gives you like an just literally an openness in your brain to creativity and problem solving and considering in a way that when we are kind of moving at a higher heart rate all the time in everyday life, and we're um not able to have that time and space or create that for ourselves, we can create it on Camino. So I think it has helped me um like launch impactful businesses and um or like fine-tune like what are my ideas? They, you know, they come to you in a different way than quote unquote everyday life, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That is so powerful. So I heard you say so many of the things that people walk away with are self-trust, an improved relationship with your children, and I'm assuming spouses and other family members, feeling happier, you know, being a more supportive and loving presence for the people under your roof, and then a renewed sense of purpose. I mean, and we just it makes me think of like just going through the motions of everyday life and kind of getting kind of you know stuck in this little calibration that we do. It's this familiar little rhythm and routine we have going on. And to pattern interrupt interrupt that, we have to do something a little drastic, right? And for some people, it's like going to a jungle in Costa Rica and doing ayahuasca. For some people, it's a Camino, for some people it's you know, it's something else, uh, you know, hiking a mountain. And I think this just calls to me so much. And I hope when I'm ready to do my first Camino that you're still guiding women, because if you are, I'm doing it with you, Liz.
SPEAKER_02:Um that's wonderful. I would love to do it with you. Yeah, I would love that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, amazing. So I'm curious if this work you do in the world now for helping mothers guide their daughters into puberty and through adolescence. I wonder if that work came from a renewed sense of clarity from your Caminos. Is that what happened?
SPEAKER_02:It did. Cool. Yeah. Great.
SPEAKER_01:That helps me bring it full circle then.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely. And um, you know, part of that was I knew that my daughter would be starting her cycle soon. Her first period was gonna be coming at some point. I was in perimenopause. I knew my cycle was winding down. And so I think it was very much on my mind as I was considering both who am I, what is my purpose? Kind of big questions, and then also like literally, what am I gonna do for my next job? Like, what do I want to create for my life? And how do I want to earn a living? And so all of that really came together in um the right timing for me to um want to support people to have like pain-free, positive relationships with their periods from the very beginning to the very end.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's how raising flora was born. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:That's how raising flora was born. It was like in the woods. And you know what? I took a picture of the moment that it happened, um, where I I I had a moment. I was like, oh, okay, this is big. And I was um in the woods. There were birds circling above. My family will tell you I'm obsessed with the big birds. I love it when the bald eagles fly near me here where we live. And we love birds too.
SPEAKER_01:Uh we're we're a bird household. Never thought that would happen. Never I would never thought I would say that one about myself, but we love birds.
SPEAKER_02:There you go. Yes. So I had I had that moment where I was like, and at the time, that moment was okay, I'm gonna make periods normal. I am gonna make this normal. This is normal. And that is where that first idea started. And since then, I have, you know, gone through lots of learning experiences and certifications and practices and teaching and working with people, and it has evolved into what I do now at Raising Flora. But that first idea happened. And so now every time on Camino, where somebody will stop me and say, Liz, I made a decision. I'm like, oh, let's take a picture. And then I send people like this is your decision moment picture. Do it, you know. That's just like it's marking a meaningful moment for people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's so powerful. So oh gosh, I'm just like letting that land because I to give ourselves that opportunity, like what a gift. Like, I just like what a gift, what a gift you are, and what a gift these women who are choosing to do this are giving themselves. And I love it. So thank you. Yeah. I have three kids, two daughters who are eight and a half and ten and a half. We're celebrating half birthdays now in our house because we just don't have enough going on. So we decided that we would now celebrate half birthdays. So I love it. Yes. So they're eight and a half and ten and a half, and then I have a boy too, who's uh three and a half. And um, but with my girls, I'm like, oh, they're like coming upon the stage, they're they're getting ready, you know, as you know, life goes by very fast and our kids grow up very fast. And so I'm like, it's gonna be happening tomorrow. So I just want to ask like some practical questions, like, what's the age range that we're gonna be expecting this? When should we start talking about this? Like, and and I've done my version of that, but I'd love to hear you, a professional person's opinion. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely. Okay, so the average age of a first period is still 12. Okay, but the range of when first periods start have been growing. And so we've started to see earlier and earlier starts of first period. And so it could be nine, 10, um, 11. Um, so I would say that is kind of the time to expect. The other thing I'll say is that a first period um can come a little bit later in puberty. So there are some signs, usually. This is not, you know, when we talk about bodies, we talk about like what is the range of normal. Everybody is not the same. We all have um, you know, differences about our bodies. So this is not entirely predictable, but oftentimes before a first period comes, girls have pubic hair and underarm hair. They have breast buds, which are like those really kind of hard, like maybe nickel size um flat lumps under their nipples, um, and they have a growth spurt. And so it's not you can usually have some signs that a first period is coming. That's not always true. As I said, everybody is different. And to your question of when do I start talking about this, is like anytime, anytime start talking about it. And a few things that you can use to start talking about it is you can share your own first period story, good, bad, ugly. You can talk about your experience, you can transition that to talking about your hopes for your daughter. You can invite her questions and answer them or research them together if you don't know the answer, or you can come talk to me about it. I am always happy to answer people's questions. You can um also share some um books. Sometimes we have kids that don't really want to talk to us, and so offering a book on their bedside table or just giving them some resources. You want to be their go-to person for all things, period. And part of that is giving them some resources. And then the last thing I'll say, and I'm happy to share this, is how to put together a first period kit because that can be a great opener to give a gift that is like, hey, let's make sure you're prepared. So some girls want to talk about what does this mean in my life? What is it gonna feel like? And some girls are maybe like super pragmatic. How do I manage when I'm bleeding? And I think one of the most important things we can teach our daughters is that when you are cycling, you are cycling, you are moving through a cycle. It's not just the days that we bleed, and how do we manage our period? It is helping them understand uh their body through a cycle. And so one thing you can do is share your cycle day, and you can make that an open thing in your family or with your daughters, like, oh, today is my cycle day 15. This is how I'm feeling. This is what a cycle day 15 is. And for everybody, day one is the first day of your period, and then you count forward from there. So those are some conversation starters or some ways to think about both from a preparing perspective for your daughters, but also uh preparing you to be open. It's a little bit challenging for some of us who felt like we kept this very private our whole lives or very secret. We took our tampon into our shirt sleeve and all of those kinds of things. So I encourage moms to practice some of this so that we as moms are also ready for our daughter's first period. It's about getting us ready and getting our daughters ready, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Totally. Oh my gosh, those are so valuable. Like those are the that is so helpful. Um, because even, you know, I'm like in love with my cycle. And I I like over the last like decade, I'm like, oh, I just love my cycle. I love like knowing when uh how I'm gonna feel on a certain day. And then I was like, you know, starting to feel irregular. And I'm like, oh my God, paramenopause, what? No, I just fell in love with you, cycle. And so I'm I'm starting to grieve that, you know, it will be different and you know, it one day I won't have it. And I never really considered that. I never really like thought, oh, one day I won't have my period. I never just like contemplated that. So my question is, are periods sporadic when they first start? Because I don't remember. I started my first, I had my first period when I was 12, I'm pretty sure. And I'm think I'm remembering that they were sporadic and they were a little hard. I don't, I didn't track them, but I feel like they were unpredictable. Is that true? It is true. Okay. So just like perimenopause, it's this transitionary period, right? Yes. No pun intent. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Like think about puberty and perimenopause or uh yeah, think about them as mirror images of each other. One cycle is ramping up and one cycle is ramping down. And again, bodies are different, but they don't often go from zero to 60 or 60 to zero all at once. There's a process that is happening. And so sometimes for our daughters, um, their cycle can be irregular in the beginning. It might be 19 days, it might be 40 days, it might be 22 days or 28 days. It can be really helpful to just help them track that because um our period is the result of an ovulation. Ovulation is actually the main event, and it is a vital sign of health. And so helping our girls understand their cycle as part of a whole healthy body system can be really valuable.
SPEAKER_01:And so ovulating before they get their first period, right? I mean, that's like, wow, you ovulated. You had like, and what I've been telling them is like, you know, you can have babies when you get your cycle. But I feel like that's such a watered down, like health class way to say it. Like, you know what I mean? And so I'm like, and I want it to be this celebration. Sorry to interject, but I want it to be this like celebration and this like, whoa, this is amazing. Look at your body. You said it's a sign of health, like how vibrant and brilliant our bodies are, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely. Because it takes the right combination of hormones rising and falling at the right moments to make ovulation happen. And so when ovulation happens, we know that the systems in our body are working. That's why it's so valuable because our primary reproductive hormones, estrogen and progesterone, work together to impact our whole body. Our brains need estrogen and progesterone, not just our ovaries, our bones, our breasts, our um for our mental well-being, for our blood vessels, need those reproductive hormones to rise and fall with each other in concert in order to maintain healthy systems throughout our body. So, yes, it means that we have an opportunity to get pregnant. It is, you know, some girls and you know yourself and your daughters best. I will say that to everybody over and over again. There is like magic in creating life. And if we can talk to our young girls about knowing their body, about understanding that they are changing every day of their cycle and loving themselves through every season of their cycle, that is an incredibly valuable place to start that is less about now you can make babies and like, oh, be careful because now you can make babies. Because those conversations are also very important. But for our 10-year-olds, the piece about making babies is maybe further down the line, right? Or about all of their choices. We don't necessarily start with pregnancy with our youngest girls, right? But giving them the opportunity to say, oh, my cycle can support me in my life. Oh, um, pain is common, but not normal. If you're having pain, let's solve those problems. Ovulation is a vital sign of health. Your whole body needs your reproductive hormones. And when you're ovulating and having a period, it tells us that your body is healthy. And how cool is that to know your body? So different angles for different kids and different moms for how you might approach introducing this or supporting your daughters through their cycles. And yes, irregularity is part of that, and um, kind of the some sense of humor and patience and grace with leaks and you know, needing to wash bedsheets because who among us has not had to do that, right? Normalizing all of that and normalizing that yeah, they're gonna have some short and some long. It can take up to 10 years to for a cycle to settle into what is gonna become their regular cycle. Wow. Yeah. Sometimes that happens as soon as a couple of years, and sometimes it takes longer.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So you just your work in the world, just thank you from the bottom of my heart. And I want to tell everybody where they can find you, follow you, connect with you, and learn more from you because I know people are gonna want to hear more.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm happy to share. So um, you can find me at raisingflora.com where I have free resources. You can join my mailing list there. You can book a free call with me if you want to hop on a 20-minute phone call or Zoom and just ask questions like what Ryan has been asking right now. You can also book a longer consult as well. Um, I do some social media. So um on Instagram at raisingflora, there are again great resources about approaching first periods and how to make that a healthy positive experience. And then you can also find me at floraonfoot.com where you can read all about my Caminos for women in midlife-ish. Um, and I have spots open for 2026 Caminos. So come have a chat with me about that. I will chat about periods and Caminos all day long.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. Two seemingly very different things that are, again, like it just makes sense. Like it just what you have done with your purpose and with your work in the world is so admirable. And I, you know, I love that. And I love it as an example for me. I love it as an example for the women who are listening right now, that you can be multipassionate, you can have these different interests in your life, and ultimately there is a connection between everything that your heart is feeling called for. So thank you for being just a ridiculously amazing example for that. And um, this might be one of my favorite conversations ever, Liz. I just love it so much. But as we wrap up, because it's that time, I'm gonna ask you now the three kind of rapid fire questions that I ask everybody at the end of the interview. And the first one is what's bringing you joy today?
SPEAKER_02:Water. Mmm. Um just I have a goal to drink more water. Yeah. And so I have been um, yeah, I love my water bottle and like my intentionality to get water in me. Water bringing me joy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Simplicity. Amazing. Totally. I love it. What if anything are you reading?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I'm reading a spy novel and I cannot remember the name of it, and that's probably not significant at this point, but I have been um like I'm really into fiction these days, and I do love a good spy novel.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, cool. And then the last question I have for you is who or what has taught you the most?
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow. Okay. I don't know if I can do that one rapid fire, but um, I mean, my husband and daughter come to mind as people who have taught me the most about both like the person I want to be, but also really concrete things about trying things in life. One of our family values is adventure, and sometimes that is learning to eat asparagus, and sometimes that is walking a camino. And those things really come from my my family, my husband and my daughter. And you know, I've taught myself a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Beautiful. Yeah, so thank you so much for being here.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you so much. This I love this conversation too!
