Raising Your EQ with Deb Porter

What is emotional intelligence? What is regulation? How can you actually regulate and co-regulate? Today we're talking about emotional intelligence and the vibrational nature of emotions on episode 108 of the Raising Wild Hearts Podcast with Founder of HOLD (Hearing Out Life Drama), Deb Porter. 

Keywords
emotional intelligence, self-awareness, co-regulation, emotional regulation, mindfulness, parenting, personal growth, emotional healing, presence, energy, self-care, emotional intelligence, co-regulation, relationships, emotional growth, emotional perfectionism, self-awareness, mental health, personal development, mindfulness

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Cosmic Energy
07:05 The Practice of Co-Regulation
12:13 Stepping Away for Emotional Clarity
20:09 The Power of Emotional Vibration
25:10 The Power of Simple Self-Care
32:02 Navigating Relationships with Emotional Awareness
37:40 The Journey of Emotional Growth

📚Grab the book recommendations from all the guests on the Raising Wild Hearts Podcast Here! 📚

✅VOTE for Raising Wild Hearts with Ryann Watkin as the Best Personal Development Podcaster in the 2025 Women Podcasters Awards!!! Voting is open May 1-31✅

Transcript

Ryann (00:00.984)
Hello Deb, welcome back to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast.

Deb Porter (00:05.744)
I'm so excited to be here, Ryann. Thanks for having me back again. I had such fun talking with you last time and I can't wait to dive into this topic today.

Ryann (00:12.974)
Me too. I'm very excited. Something that I noticed when I was prepping for this interview is when we talked last time, which was May 6th, 2024. If you have not heard Deb's first episode, go back and listen to Mastering the Art of Active Listening after you listen to this one, of course. But it was such a rich conversation and there was a solar eclipse at that time. And I think I even mentioned it in the episode and we're just coming off of a solar eclipse. And so I don't know what it

with me and you Deb, but we got some energy in the cosmos that's just supporting us and last conversation was great and this conversation will be great as well.

Deb Porter (00:51.536)
That's so funny. That's amazing. I love that. That the universe is just supporting all of what we're doing.

Ryann (00:59.574)
I know, it's beautiful. And yes, so the last time we talked about your background, the twists and turns it took, the journey bringing you back and starting hold, hearing out life drama, we talked about the power of conversations to heal and we talked about so much more. It was such a rich conversation. So yes, go back and listen to that if you haven't already. And then this time, we're talking about, drum roll please, I would do one if I could, but I can't. Okay.

So we're talking about emotional intelligence. And let's start Deb by defining from where you're sitting, what is emotional intelligence?

Deb Porter (01:38.544)
So if your listeners aren't familiar, Daniel Goldman wrote a book in the 90s. he is like, that was the genesis, the beginning of understanding of what emotional intelligence is. His book is still the standard, even after all of these years. really is. Emotional intelligence is the ability to recognize, understand, manage, and influence our own emotions and then the emotions of others. That is Daniel's pretty much definition. It stands today.

In his book, he talks about four key components, self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and then relationship management as those components. I just highly, highly, highly recommend his book. It was life-altering for me way back when when I found it. I didn't find it until about 2004 or five when my daughter was young.

Ryann (02:31.615)
Okay, awesome, beautiful definition. I'm gonna go back and put that book on my list and on our list, Raising Wild Hearts crew, because we've got a book list going and I promise I will have an actual book list one day. So it's so interesting that he wrote that book in the 90s because so many of us, including myself, say like, our parents didn't like know that much. I'm like, okay.

Deb Porter (02:47.972)
Yes.

Ryann (02:54.049)
Well, there was also a book written on emotional intelligence in the 90s, so there's that, you know, and which I think is great. I love that it has been around for decades now. That brings me solace, and I think some of you skeptics out there solace as well, because many of these theories aren't really theories anymore. They've been proven time and time again. So I think it's really cool. There's a myth that emotional regulation is about

controlling our emotions and never feeling like crap. Deb, what is that all about?

Deb Porter (03:31.664)
Show me human being who can do that. I want to meet that person. I'm sorry, that's funny. It's not possible. Yeah, shit's gonna happen. I just say it right out loud. My mom used to say there's two rules in life. Rule number one is shit's gonna happen and rule number two is you can't change rule number one. Like that is the way it is. Right?

Ryann (03:34.529)
Yes. Yes. Me too.

Ryann (03:41.463)
It is.

Ryann (03:45.453)
Wait!

Ryann (03:56.782)
Thank you, Mom. Exactly. Shit's gonna happen. Yes. It's so true.

Deb Porter (04:00.72)
And so, yeah. And so, what about when it does? So then if we're talking about emotional intelligence, then what we're talking about is really understanding what that is in our life, why it's here and what it's teaching us. What is it that we're to learn from this moment that we don't like, that we're uncomfortable with, or that's presenting us with real challenge? If it's all right, I'd like to share an example from my personal life that might help your listeners.

I was thinking about this ahead of our conversation. I don't know if your listeners know, but I'm divorced and I have two kids. And it was probably, it was not long after the divorce happened. then it was a few, it was months after I came back to the home and my kids were here. My ex moved out and my daughter expressed her anger.

her rage, wasn't anger, let's be real, it was rage. She expressed her rage to me. And it was like full force fire hose rage at me, right? It was like all coming. And so it wasn't about trying to control that or to suppress that, it was about allowing that to be, holding onto myself, right? Letting her truth be hers and also knowing mine.

and knowing that I could withstand whatever it was she was saying, and we would both be okay. Like I had to hold that for both of us in that moment. Now, you tell me if that makes sense or not to you.

Ryann (05:38.376)
One thousand percent. One of the things that when I started this journey I found the emotional intelligence work that was kind of one of the things that I stumbled upon in the beginning of my growth journey. So let's call it like a little over a decade ago. And I was like whoa this this is crazy that there's so many feelings and I was fascinated by it because I've always been deeply feeling since childhood. One of the things that I initially and still even to this day

was really good at was regulating by myself, with myself, with no one witnessing. Just like really working through the emotions I had and just having it be by myself. And so one of the things that I am learning to do is regulate in relationship, which is what we would call co-regulation. And so for me, and I think many of us listening here today,

We have this like, well I can like kind of deal with my own stuff. But then when someone else, my daughter, my partner, my coworker, name the person comes at me with this thing that I wasn't expecting. How do I, like you said, stand in my truth, my perspective and then honor and witness this person who might be going a little crazy for lack of a better term. Right. So yeah, it makes perfect.

perfect sense.

Deb Porter (07:05.54)
think that it's really important to understand that there's work that has to come before. Like you don't just get there and do it. Like it's a practice and it's a continual showing up for yourself in those quiet moments so that when you do get to the moments that are with others, you're ready.

Ryann (07:22.861)
Yep, yep, I love that. I call that these days finding my center. So I'm on, everybody out there, you're probably sick of hearing me listening to this, but I'm on like, I keep losing track, but week 16, I think, of a daily meditation practice. And this meditation is only three minutes a day, and I'm waking up before everybody in the house and I'm doing this meditation. And I mean, I'm telling you as like N of one here.

It's working to really help me stay in my center three minutes a day. I mean, that's wild. And so I have witnessed myself being more able to witness others and, you know, be space holding, if you will. So, yeah, it is a big, big practice. You know, yesterday, my oldest child was like kind of having a moment and she was like.

like a little like whiny and it started to like really grate on me and I was like going my gosh like this is a lot this is a lot for 7 a.m. and I felt myself say like and I afterwards I reflected on this and I could have done better but what I did say is listen I woke up and I meditated this morning and I got myself ready and I you know had breakfast I went for a walk and so no matter what you're gonna throw at me right now I can handle it

And I was just trying to like tell her that so that she knew like that she had a safe place to express. But it was funny because I felt myself still a little heightened even while saying that. Like I said it and then I was like, well, I was still a little heightened and she could have probably sensed that. And so I love how you called it. I think you said it's a practice and we're not like coming out of the gate as like emotion superheroes.

Deb Porter (09:06.82)
It is.

Deb Porter (09:12.986)
You know, one of the things that I think is the most powerful, and I might have mentioned this in our last episode, it's memory, right? Because we have the gift of memory, we are able to then circle back around so that when we have experiences with someone we care about, and we didn't quite do it the way we wanted to, and I had so many of those when I was raising my kids, sometimes I still do, but then to be able to go back and go, really wish I wouldn't have done that that way, right? Like, this is what I said, and this is what I reflected on later, and this is what I really want you to know.

And that's repair work, right? But that's the beauty of our memory.

Ryann (09:50.19)
Totally. Yeah, I love that. Love the word repair. I'm all for it. So it's interesting because another myth that I have noticed lately that I totally kind of believed was that regulation equals calm. And what's your take on that? Because what I have come to kind of unpack with that statement is like

Regulation doesn't equal calm. Regulation equals dealing with your emotions in an appropriate and healthy way, right? So what's your take on that? Do you think regulation equals calm or that it equals something else?

Deb Porter (10:35.108)
would say self-awareness and the ability to, if not get back to calm, to still manage yourself in a way that presents in a demeanor that's not dysregulated. How's that? Twisted it all around.

Ryann (10:52.503)
Get off the dysregulation train, people. Yes, it's, yeah, yeah, I like that. And you said, the first thing you said was regulation equals self-awareness and the ability to get back to calm. That's what I heard you say. And I like that because it's like, okay, I might not be calm in this moment right now, but I'm feeling that I'm slightly elevated. And so I know what I can do. Take a walk, take a breath, take a glass of water to get back.

to calm so now I can take another try at whatever's going on.

Deb Porter (11:24.056)
Exactly. And that might be quick. It might be, you know, in the moment you may be able to do that and it may be, no, I gotta step really further back further away. Yeah.

Ryann (11:35.468)
Yeah, my husband and I have like a, it's not a code word, it's like, I need to step away right now for a minute. And we've been saying that to each other. Like if one of us is having a really hard time with our tanker truck of a toddler who is very much a toddler right now, in his emotional expression, we'll be like, hey, I'm gonna go step away real quick. And sometimes we just need to like take a beat and close the door.

and like go, whoo, like, all right, okay, come back to center, go back out, you know, put your game face on and try again.

Deb Porter (12:13.914)
Yeah, 100%. That's so smart. I'm so proud of you. Keep doing that. All of our listeners who have young toddlers out there, do that because that is how you make sure that you raise emotionally intelligent children and you help them to know that it's okay. And if you can't step away, reach for something different, like turn on some music, right? Dance it out. Find another way to shift the energy, shift the emotion. Honor the emotion. know, sometimes emotions don't just shift.

Ryann (12:14.72)
It's helpful.

Deb Porter (12:43.108)
But by bringing something else into the room, it can sometimes, especially with little ones, I think this works really well with little ones. If you've got a teenager, maybe don't try the music. Just saying.

Ryann (12:58.419)
It's so funny. I love like those. I don't even know what it is like a reel of like, I don't know if you guys have seen these, but like when I put on music and it's like some old 90s song or something, it's like what I hear and it's like the song and then it's like what my teenager hears and it's like this 50s like doo-wop or something. Like they don't like our music. I don't have any teenagers yet, but I already know they're starting not to like our music and it's very funny.

Deb Porter (13:28.24)
So fun. So my kids are actually, my daughter's gonna be 25 this year in October and my son is gonna be 20 next month. I have taken the journey and I am so happy and so proud. There's nothing that I'm prouder about in my life than my kids. And I did not do it perfectly. And what I learned as I was going through it is I wasn't supposed to. Wasn't supposed to get it perfect. I was just supposed to do it good enough. And because,

Ryann (13:28.991)
Yeah.

Deb Porter (13:57.482)
a wise person had taught me about the pendulum, right? So it had gone kind of crappy in my younger years. And so I had the challenge then of not over-correcting, but to try to find the middle part that would just be good enough. And I feel like with my kids, I did that. So.

Ryann (14:12.631)
Mmm. You did it Deb. Let's throw a party. I feel like there needs to be some confetti or I don't know something because I'm always fascinated by Humans who have raised humans like all the way through. I mean, I know you'll always be their parent You'll always be their mom and also like with someone me with three kids ten and under I it's I'm so very in it and I you know lately I've been

Deb Porter (14:15.223)
Yeah

Ryann (14:41.309)
noticing that I'm like having this thing where I'm just like going really fast trying to like solve everybody's problem and like move on to the next. And I hear myself like a little, just do this. Okay, onto the next. like, cause somebody like is always having something that we need to like talk about. And I said to my husband, I'm like, I feel like I'm like kind of blowing everybody off. I'm going like, you know, they're like one more story. I'm like, go.

Gotta go back to lunches. know, I'm like, I'm kind of racing through everything right now. And in the like the past couple weeks, and I'm reflecting on that, going like, okay, this is the time that I'm gonna like look back on, because I already do this. I'm gonna look back on this time and I'm gonna go, look at that time. Look at that time. And what I've promised myself to try and do, to practice to do,

is to be in the time, in the real time, going, can I just get, like hearing the, can I just get one more story or one more snuggle or whatever it is, and being like, this is the time now, instead of looking back or having this like, can't this just speed up or can't this slow down, like being here now, and we've got so many like spinning plates up in the air and so many balls.

fly in everywhere like juggling wise and so it you know some days it can feel like a challenge to do that so what would you say to somebody who is ultra busy who is ultra you know tapped out of their capacity because they have so many needs being met that aren't even their own really.

Deb Porter (16:29.968)
All we have is now. That's it. That's the only moment you have. And what you're doing when you're spinning all of those plates is thinking about the future nows. All you got is this one. And so be in this one and experience it as it is. I think my perspective on this is a bit different because of my husband's illness. So he was, think I might've shared in the last episode that he was chronically ill. so we lived with a...

Ryann (16:54.113)
Yeah.

Deb Porter (16:57.914)
pretty real thing that he might not be there tomorrow. with that heightened my awareness of I had to be in the now if I wanted to experience what was in front of me and I couldn't. So I had this, what's flashing in my head, I'll just share it because it's right there and it's so strong and it's so deep and we're talking about emotional intelligence. he had been, my daughter was three and he had had.

and an experience where he was in the intensive care, bounced in and out of the intensive care unit for about 20 days. And we got him out of the hospital and we were walking at the zoo and he was walking in front of me with my daughter holding her hand. And in that moment, it was so powerful because I had had this moment of not knowing if we were ever going to have that again, if we would ever have the experience of being present and being there. So, yeah, you can worry about the lunches, you can worry about the whatever.

But if you can be present in your now and realize that this moment, this love, this experience just comes in this now, and there'll be a next now. And when that next now comes, you'll be ready for it. You don't have to worry about it. I don't know if that makes sense, Ryan, but that's what's on my heart. So that's what I'm sharing.

Ryann (18:14.027)
Yeah, it does. Yeah, you helped me see those plates in the air and the juggling balls as things that actually aren't in this now, but are things that maybe have already happened and then things that are about to happen, you know, and even if it's in two minutes or in five minutes, I get to go pack the lunches. It's right now.

I'm sitting reading a story doing bedtime and everything like that. And it makes me think about like before we hit record, I was like, I just have to write this thing down. So it gets out of my brain, you know, same kind of thing. Like because I have a tendency to like play tennis in my brain of like all these things going round and round and round. And ultimately, it ultimately at the end of the day, I think that is in part due to being very used to

what I would call like, and I don't want to identify myself as an anxious person, but someone who feels and is very comfortable with anxiety. Even though this worry of the future doesn't feel good, it's something that has been very comfortable in my experience. And so it's almost like this default network that I go to in my brain because it's been there for so long.

Deb Porter (19:43.408)
Well, the beautiful thing about that is you can tell that story how you want it to be. So how do you want the story to be? You want the story to be like, I'm present and I'm gonna read another story and the lunches await. And when I get to the lunches, it'll go easy and it'll be quick and it'll be fine. And I'll put love in the lunches just like I'm putting love in this moment right now, reading this story. And just tell that story. Tell the story how you want it to be right now and how you want it to be next. And then it will become that.

Ryann (20:09.471)
Yes, I love that. That's a perfect reframe because it doesn't have to be, my gosh, all these thoughts are stressing me out. It's like the calm, the, you know, adding the love into the lunch, adding the love into the moment right now. I love that. Okay. So you said the word energy earlier and I'm so glad you did because look at what I printed out. I mean, you people listening can't hear, but we're going to talk about it. I printed out this. Can you see Deb? it's okay. So have you seen this before?

Deb Porter (20:35.406)
Yes, I can, yes. I have actually, I don't remember where it comes from, but I have seen that before, yes.

Ryann (20:41.705)
Okay, so I don't remember where it originated, but I'll tell you what it is. It's the emotional vibration chart. And it says all these different emotions and it's showing kind of a cone of, you know, the smaller vibration or the lower vibration emotions start down at the bottom. And then it goes up all the way to, well, enlightenment. I don't think any of us are here. I mean, maybe the monks on the mountaintop. So the top one is enlightenment. The bottom one is shame.

And the whole idea is that the different emotions that we feel vibrate at a certain frequency. And when we're vibrating at a certain frequency, we attract like little magnets, like more of that frequency. So when we're having like a really good day and our hair's just looking so good and the person at the coffee shop like pays for our tea and then we meet a really kind person who's gonna be on the podcast and then our kids are like,

little angels and they're all getting along all day and everything just like falls into place and it's like one of those days that's just like you're like vibing and this is where it comes from is that like when we're happy when we're feeling joy we attract more of that so and then the bottom ones let's talk about the bottom ones dun dun dun shame let's

Deb Porter (22:00.304)
Let's not, let's not, because we don't want to attract that stuff. Let's not. I'm serious. Let's don't go there. Let's don't go there at all. We know what happens. But the important thing then is to shift it immediately. So you can't, if you're vibrating down at the bottom, what you want to do is because you can't go from the shame or whatever all the way up to joy or to love or to enlightenment as I would say the enlightenment is the love. You can't just make that jump. It's not possible. So what is one thought that you can find that feels just a little bit better? What's one thing that you can find?

Ryann (22:04.268)
We'll see!

Ryann (22:07.999)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryann (22:27.725)
you

Deb Porter (22:29.422)
that just feels, that gives you relief. This is Abraham Hicks, if anybody's listening, you might even recognize the verbiage, the language, it's the same. I am a firm believer in all of the teachings of Abraham. It's very wise.

Ryann (22:44.651)
Yeah, okay, love it. Love that you're like, let's not go there, because that was really my question of like, nobody wants to go there. We don't want to be there. And sometimes when we're there, we're like, my God, we're here. And then we get more, you know, we pile on more guilt or whatever the emotions, more shame on top of it because we're feeling it. And so I love that you're like, you just get out of it quick. So you're like here, you recognize it, and then you take that.

tiny step up the ladder. So like, gosh, look at the sunrise. I'm always like looking at things in nature. Look at that flower. Look at that. Listen to my kid giggling. my dog's wagging his tail. Very, very simple things.

Deb Porter (23:31.214)
And sometimes you just need a nap. Sometimes you really just need to reset because when we shut it down, we wake up in a different vibration because our, take a nap, take a nap. It's okay. It's okay. Really take a nap. It's so wise to take a nap because our inner being, our higher self keeps going. And when we shut our human self down, it fixes the vibrational issue that we're having and we're able to raise up.

Ryann (23:40.183)
Did you hear that everybody? Take a nap. Take a nap. Today. Yes.

Deb Porter (24:00.428)
It takes, you've been in it for a while, if you've been practicing that negativity, as Abraham says, it may take some days. Like may take a lot of days, but if you keep practicing, if you keep doing the work, it does get better. I can promise you it gets better.

Ryann (24:13.739)
Yeah, it's like unplugging the computer. Like it's like unplugging the printer, which I had to do yesterday. It's like unplug it and then plug it back in and it's fine. I don't know how, but it's fine. Maybe because Mercury's not in retrograde anymore almost. I don't know. I love the astrology. But yes, I took a nap yesterday. And do you want to know what my thought process was leading up to this nap, Deb? I was like, okay. Like I'm feeling it.

Deb Porter (24:17.007)
Yes.

Ryann (24:41.739)
I'm on the last part of my cycle. know I'm feeling lower energy. I'm just feeling tired. I just want to lay down. And these little thoughts in my head are going, well, you could like totally just like go get, you know, like a tea. Like you could, you just even fold laundry. You could turn on the TV. And it was like, no, I need a nap. And so I really listened to this wiser, higher self.

and I gave myself a nap and it was like a 20 minute nap and it was still lovely. And I woke up and I was ready to carry on. Love it. It's amazing.

Deb Porter (25:19.984)
Isn't that amazing? Yeah, totally. It is, powerful stuff right there. Yeah.

Ryann (25:24.425)
It's powerful. Like we just need to revert back to like being a toddler. Like take a nap, make sure you're fed, make sure you're hydrated and get good sleep and laugh a lot and play. I mean, it's really quite simple everybody. Yeah.

Deb Porter (25:38.67)
It is, it really is, but you have to be kind to yourself. And so what happens is, know, so many of us had parents who didn't understand that, didn't know that, didn't teach us how to be kind to ourselves, taught us instead to not do that. And so now you gotta relearn it and go back to exactly how we were as children. Yeah.

Ryann (26:00.065)
Yeah, it's so true. And I hinted to being highly sensitive. And one of the things that I had such like I grappled with for so long was like I didn't have the majority of the time that that caregiver there to like witness that, you know, those swings of emotions that I would have because I was feeling the outside environment. I was feeling the home environment. I was feeling the pressure from school. I was feeling the fight from my friend and it was

all like it all felt so big and so I didn't have looking back I didn't have like an outlet to just like I mean you know you have an outlet for people to come and vent basically really and so I didn't have that outlet and so that's one of the things that led me to like ooh emotional intelligence is where I can start like it felt like such a good jumping off place for me

Deb Porter (26:56.8)
I think it's so important when we, you mentioned earlier that you feel like you know how to reset internally for yourself and that doing it together with another person's hard. Well, part of the reason that you learned how to do it so well for yourself is because you didn't have that help from the time when you were smaller. That was also very true for me as I was preparing for the episode two, I was thinking about.

Ryann (27:16.333)
Yep.

Deb Porter (27:22.416)
Wild hearts feel deeply, absolutely. And that's a strength, not a problem. Yes. And I was thinking about the time as in my own childhood where I learned that I learned where baking came from. And I was like, I'm not, I'm not eating meat anymore. Like, and I had this whole exchange with my mother and she was very much like, yes, you are eating meat. I'm not changing. That was this whole thing. But you can imagine like, was just passionate, fiery.

Ryann (27:51.598)
Little activist you, yeah. I'm not eating bacon. You can't make me. I love it. I love it.

Deb Porter (27:51.994)
Kid!

Deb Porter (27:58.676)
and except that, that was not received. And I was told that I was eating the bacon and there was no not eating the bacon and it was shut down. so when there's not room, So that just tells you right there that I came from a home where the emotional intelligence was not known, was not modeled.

I was able to learn it. And so I want to just reinforce for any listener out there who might have had something similar, you can learn, you can change, you can be different from the experiences you had and find the middle, not the overcorrection, but you can find the middle.

Ryann (28:46.605)
the middle. Yeah, you hinted to this earlier. You said when your daughter was throwing the rage at you, you said co-regulation basically without losing yourself. And I added to that when I was prepping for the interview like or dissociating because you know we can space off and kind of like go on to a different planet sometimes some of us. So let's dive deeper into that co-regulation without

Deb Porter (28:53.68)
Mm-hmm.

Ryann (29:14.675)
losing yourself part and the part that I'm really interested in is like the not losing yourself like so You know, we know what co-regulation is we know it's you know Sitting with someone honoring witnessing the emotion if you had to have anything to add for what co-regulation is amazing and then let's talk about not Losing ourselves aka what you called like standing in your truth

Deb Porter (29:40.528)
So really think it's about, so many people don't understand that when the energy is coming at you, you don't have to absorb it. You're not a sponge, right? It's not that. Because when we do that, then what we do is we get overwhelmed. That's not co-regulation. It's like, then it's, we're saturated with all of it and there's no separation between this is you and this is me. There has to be,

I see you, I hear you, I love you, I know you're having a hard time right now. I hear this, this, this, and this, because you really want to make sure that they know that they're seen, and loved. And it's okay, I accept where you are. still, and that self-awareness is key, right? We're going back to the definition of that emotional intelligence, having that self-awareness to be able to co-regulate to know, okay, I'm here. And I understand that their stuff is,

is okay, it's theirs, and I may have feelings about that, right? This is where it gets tricky for people because as soon as we start to have feelings about the other person, that's when we begin to not be able to co-regulate because there we go. Now we're off in the bushes, right? We get thrown off the merry-go-round because it's spinning too fast. That's not what you wanna do. So if it's coming at you, or if it's spinning too quick, you gotta figure out, how, you you mentioned some techniques earlier about, you know,

Ryann (30:53.709)
Mm-hmm.

Deb Porter (31:07.578)
taking a pause, taking a walk, those things are so key, so important. If you don't hold onto yourself, you can help no one else ever. You simply cannot. And I found that over and over again as part of the reason I created my business, because when I was going through all of that drama with my husband, people really did want to help me, but what they didn't know was how to withstand my emotional turmoil, all of the feelings that I had, and hold onto themselves.

They weren't able to co-regulate. This is exactly it. And it's really essential if you really want to help someone else to be able to do that, to understand that what they're feeling is okay. It's theirs to have and you don't have to fix it. You don't have to take it on. Their feelings are not yours. It's not something you need to bring into yourself. You can simply let it be and remember all you need is love for them and for you. And it's all really okay.

Ryann (32:02.061)
Mmm, there's so much there that's so beautiful and wise. The first thing you said though was you don't have to absorb it and that hit home so hard for me because as a highly sensitive person, you know, there is this empathy that blurs the lines between you and me, self and other.

I'm here, you're there, this is your experience, this is mine. It all can feel very glob, I don't even know, like enmeshed, that's probably not the right, right? Yeah, okay, yes. So, or codependent, both, probably both. So one of the things that I work on, like, I mean, this is why I practice yoga. It's like, we have an aura, we have an energetic field around us, and our job, I believe,

Deb Porter (32:33.508)
Yes, that's it is exactly a mesh. It mesh. Yes.

Ryann (32:53.457)
as sovereign individual humans is to like keep, like protect and like monitor and be in charge of your field. Like mind your own field, mind your own bubble, mind your own thing. And when we're doing that, it is so much easier to show up. And then a thought comes in about us judging the experience of someone else. And then we go, there's that judging thought. I can let that go. Okay.

back to the experience, back to the experience and we come back to witnessing the other person and for me so often it's just my kids and it's you know sometimes it's easier with my kids than it is like let's say an extended family member I won't mention any names or anything here but you know we have people that it's easier and harder with so what would you say to someone who has like that one relationship like we all know

that one person in our family that we've got that history with and we've got karma with like and how do we maybe if you figured this out or maybe just you know let's try to unpack it here we don't have all the answers but like how do what would you say to that person who's spending time with somebody who just is like the person that is the hardest to co-regulate with

Deb Porter (33:51.92)
Ha

Deb Porter (34:16.752)
So I was listening actually to again, and Abraham on this just a couple of days ago and what Abraham was teaching that I think is just so true and what I find has helped me in my life is this, you wanna get out ahead of that and tell the story how you want it to be before you ever get there. So before you have the interaction with them in this situation that I was listening to on the YouTube, Abraham was talking, this woman was presenting an issue of I have an addiction in the family and

I know that when I go, this is gonna, I'll cycle up with all of the people and I'm nervous and I don't want to have all that happen. And so Abraham basically said, don't go. That was a funny response. And the person's like, but I have to go. So if you have to go, so, but Abraham was like, okay, so you have to go. So that is what it is. All right, so then how are you gonna go and not get drawn into the drama? How are you gonna go?

Ryann (35:00.749)
Don't go, don't go.

Deb Porter (35:14.09)
and be present without getting knocked off your son. This is exactly what we're talking about. This is the essence of emotional intelligence. That's why I love Abraham so much is that's essentially what they're teaching through all of their work. Reframing the behavior and getting to curiosity, getting to an awareness of you get to have whatever you feel and that's okay. And I can hear you and I don't have to get pulled into that. And telling the story.

and ahead before you even get there. You don't even want to get to that. You want to get to as you're driving in the car or you're on the plane, you're going to be talking about, I'm excited to go and be in this situation. And this time, I think that this might not even come up. Or if it does, if it comes up, I'm going to just realize it right away. Hey, this is starting and I know how this plays out. And so I'm going to do something different this time. I'm going to take care of me. going to disengage and say,

Look, I know, and people will try and draw you back. I had an experience with someone in my home two days ago. And they had some drama going on in their life. And there was another person in the home who was trying to help, but they were keeping the drama going. And what needed to happen was it needed to just be disengaged from and not like, again, that bottom stuff, but the law of attraction. And I was literally watching the energy and the law of attraction. Like it was right there. was like,

I can just see this whole thing now. I was like, you got to stop this. Can you see what's happening? And all of a sudden they did and they're like, okay. And so then it was just like, and I was like, there's momentum. There's momentum to this topic. There's momentum. And so that's what it is. It's not letting that momentum get started and get going. So tell the story how you want it to be. And if it starts going that way, get off the track.

Ryann (37:04.961)
God, I love that. So you're essentially practicing in your mind about how this interaction is going to go with this person and you're not just practicing. You are like going over the best case scenario in your mind, like the absolute desired outcome. You are like totally your higher self. You're so present. You're so loving and you're going over this in your head. So when you get there, you have that memory again.

that experience in your head because that's all we're doing all the time anyways having experience in our own heads

Deb Porter (37:40.452)
Yeah, you're creating it. Yeah. Yes. Isn't that fun?

Ryann (37:43.457)
Fuck, well it sounds so easy, Deb. I mean, come on, it's too easy. We don't need this podcast anymore. We're done. I mean, we've solved it. We solved it. That's so good. That's so good.

Deb Porter (37:54.8)
It's so good. that's, and I just really want to be clear to people. This is not, I mean, this is me having studied Abraham Hicks and having integrated into my life. So if you're listening to this and you're like, wow, Deb seems really smart. The reason Deb's really smart and has gotten to where she is is because she went and she studied, she went through the process, right? So you get ready to be ready to be ready for the things that you're, that you are ready for in your life. And so

You know, in the early 2000s when I had my daughter, was ready to be ready for Daniel Goldman talking about emotional intelligence. I was ready to think, and to be curious and to do that. It's okay to just follow the next step and the next step and the next step. You don't have to get all the way. I feel like sometimes, especially when I was younger, I wanted to be all the way at the end. I just wanted so much to be all the way at the end and to be and to have joy and to just have that in my life and to have that be my everyday thing.

And I didn't understand that there was, that I was getting there, that there was a process and that I was doing the things that would take me there. Abraham says, enjoy the journey. I hated, my God, I hated the word process when I was in my 20s and early 30s. I wanted to strangle anybody who used the word to me. I didn't want it to be a process. I wanted to be there. And so it's okay. You can have that feeling. I did.

But what I can tell you is, if you can find the experience of, yeah, well, this is happening now and I can tell a new story, can make this better. It gets better. So.

Ryann (39:27.447)
Yeah, your journey sounds like such a mirror of my own. So thank you for reflecting that back to me because I always, I frequently look back on my journey and go like, okay, but am I there yet? Like, am I there yet? And the truth is I don't think any one of us is gonna get there yet, but we have a choice in every moment of every day to be there. know, we can choose to be there.

And so that is just, it's such a beautiful reflection because we do want this end result tied up in a bow and ready to go. But when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And when we take those chances, when we take those leaps, when we choose to move in the direction that our heart knows is for us, that's when that journey unfolds. And it is so...

interesting to be on top of the mountain or maybe halfway up, whatever it is, looking back and going, wow, this all made sense. All of it. The stumbles, the falls, it all made sense.

Deb Porter (40:37.296)
all of it.

Ryann (40:44.171)
Yeah. So this is so good. And I just, let me check our time. Okay. We're getting there. As we wrap up, I want to share a concept with you that I read about, I think it was yesterday and I was like, my God, I've got my interview with Deb tomorrow and this is so freaking perfect. So from Laura McCowen's sub stack called Love Story, she's also the author of We Are the Luckiest and Push Off From Here.

I highly recommend We Are the Luckiest, but I haven't read Push Off From Here yet. Anyway, and her sub stack is great. She said, she talked about emotional perfectionism and I was like, my God, as soon as I read that, I was like, yes, yes, please. That's, that sounds like me, not yes, please. But so she put, it's the belief or internal pressure that you must feel the right emotions.

Deb Porter (41:25.709)
my gosh.

Ryann (41:41.366)
at the right intensity, at the right time, in the right way. And I was like, my God, my God, that's so good. And because like I consider myself definitely a recovering perfectionist. And so we can get caught up in these, I would like to call them self-development traps of like, you know, this like, have to be so...

Deb Porter (41:49.517)
Mm-hmm.

Ryann (42:09.293)
I have to be so high vibe and then right when you think something like that you're like like down in the basement, you know, and so it's such a freaking trap. So what's your take on emotional perfectionism? And yeah, that's the question. That's it.

Deb Porter (42:29.552)
I wrote perfectionism on my sheet to talk about with you as well. This is like the last point that I had on my notes to bring up, which I think is just so the universe just knew we needed to talk about this. my thought was to share perfectionism first really my own awareness developed when I saw it in my daughter when she was about four. And I was like, I see this thing and.

Ryann (42:36.49)
Amazing.

Ryann (42:41.282)
Yup.

Deb Porter (42:56.81)
Why is she doing that? And I don't understand. And I went to my friends and they said to me, have you looked in the mirror? Have you looked at yourself? I was like, well, shit.

Ryann (43:06.455)
Damn it, didn't know I had to do that. Anything but that.

Deb Porter (43:10.704)
Oh, oh, was really uncomfortable and really unhappy. I was like, well, and I had to realize, well, they're right. I am. She is being that because that is exactly what I'm showing her how to do. This is exactly how else can she how can she know how to be anything different? And absolutely, I think it definitely it doesn't matter whether it's a coloring page or whether it's our emotions and feeling like we have to get it right. If we don't allow ourselves to have our humaneness, to have our feelings of, well, this went wrong. so

and then now what, right? Because we have to model that for our kids in as much as, but it doesn't mean we have to have it perfect. It just means we have to be willing to be in it and move through it. And that's really what emotional intelligence is, is accepting what it is and understanding it, right? And then allowing it to move through and to move on and not let it get stuck in our vibration. I'll just use the word vibration. There you go.

Ryann (44:07.501)
Perfect. So for those of us, for everybody here who hasn't followed you yet and hasn't looked at your work yet, where's the best place for them to start?

Deb Porter (44:20.004)
Well, depends. If you want to go check out the website, hearingoutlifedrama.com, that's a great place. I have a lot of blogs there for people, lots of different topics on emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and lots of different things. In addition, if you're on social media, pick the one you like. I'm on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, wherever you hang out. I'm probably there. At hold, hearingoutlifedrama and or hold listener. If you're on Pinterest, it's hold listener. So anyway, yeah.

Ryann (44:45.549)
Perfect and LinkedIn because that's where you and I connected too. but yeah, pick pick your favorite. There you go. Okay. So now as we officially wrap up, I'm going to ask you the three questions again that I ask everybody at the end of the interview. And the first one is what's bringing you joy today?

Deb Porter (44:48.24)
yeah. Yes. Yes, indeed.

Deb Porter (45:03.152)
This interview has brought me so much joy. How marvelous to be able to, I just feel so blessed from our conversation. Like it was real, it was raw again. And I love how you show up in your podcast. Like this is truly one of my favorites. Thank you so much.

Ryann (45:18.989)
I'm crying. Thank you, Deb. So receiving that and it's bringing me so much joy as well. Okay, now what is on your bookshelf? What are you reading right now?

Deb Porter (45:31.94)
Well, I already admitted that I'm a huge Abraham Hicks fan, and so I haven't been reading as much as I've been listening and taking in over and over the YouTube. So I don't know if I said that might have been where I was last year too, because I have been literally studying in a very intense way the teachings of Abraham.

Ryann (45:50.296)
Amazing. I don't remember what you had said the first time, but I'm interested to go back in here. That'd be good. And I love, too, hearing the variety of answers throughout all the seasons of the show, because it's just so fascinating how everybody has a different thing they're working on and so many amazing books. And yeah, so thank you for that. Abraham Hicks, and of course we have on the list now Daniel Goleman and his book. And I'll link that up in the show notes below.

Deb Porter (45:54.288)
You

Ryann (46:18.153)
And then the last question I have for you Deb is who or what has taught you the most?

Deb Porter (46:29.488)
How does one answer that question after 53 years? I'm old, Ryan.

Ryann (46:35.661)
You're a spring chicken, Deb.

Deb Porter (46:40.88)
I feel like it. People tell me I look like it. I feel very young. I feel the best I have in my entire life. But in terms of, so I had a mentor, her name was Lenora. might've probably, if you asked me this question, it's probably was her last time too. Yeah. No, yeah. Her name was Lenora and she was so incredibly wise. I learned so very much from her. So it's...

Ryann (46:56.991)
I did, you're gonna have to go back and listen, that would be interesting.

Deb Porter (47:10.128)
She set me on the path to be able to get to where I am today. As I told her at one point, I have a mother who gave me birth, but you gave me life. And so she was extremely important to me. And so it would, I don't know that, you my kids, course, extreme influence. I mean, it's hard because they taught me so much day to day to day to day to day, right?

But it was her influence, think, that really, I had a lot of, she helped me heal.

Ryann (47:46.133)
Yeah, thank you so much to all the teachers and the mentors and the guides and the angels and the, you know, just those those farther along in the journey that as we are because I've had so many of those people to, I mean, I think a handful of really, really memorable ones and they are there when you're ready to follow them and they're holding up the light on the path to show you the way. And so

Deb Porter (47:52.875)
Mm-hmm.

Ryann (48:14.433)
to find someone like that and to discern that like, yes, this is like, this is where I am right now and this is the person who is helping me is like, it's just, it's such a gift. And I hope that for everyone listening that you have those people too that you're thinking about in your mind and heart right now. So thank you so much again, Deb, for being here. This conversation, of course, was just absolutely beautiful.

Deb Porter (48:39.664)
Thank you, Ryan.