Raising Wild Hearts

Emotional Healing and Inner Child Work: Insights from Amanda Curry on Managing Mom Rage Though Somatic Work

Ryann Watkin

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Today on the podcast, Amanda and I delve into the holistic approach to somatic healing, emphasizing the integration of body, mind, and spirit. We discuss creating a safe space to feel and express the full range of emotions, the importance of emotional regulation, and the transformative power of reconnecting with one's intuition. The conversation extends to the impacts of codependency and the importance of emotional self-sufficiency within family dynamics. By fostering emotional awareness, we can cultivate healthier, more empathetic relationships and personal growth. Join us for an enlightening discussion that promises to enrich your parenting journey.

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Speaker 1:

Yes, I have both witnessed myself and in my clients that the proportion of your ability to be with agony and grief and despair and frustration and anger and rage correlates to the pendulum swinging to the other way for you to feel joy and contentment and flow and peace, and all of that in a more present way.

Speaker 2:

Welcome, revolutionary Mama, to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. I'm Ryan Watkin, educator, mom of three, rebel at heart and passionate soul on a mission to empower and inspire you.

Speaker 2:

Here we'll explore psychology, spirituality, parenthood and the intersection where they all come together. We'll discover how challenges can be fertile soil for growth and that even in the messy middle of motherhood, we can find magic in the mundane. Join me on my own personal journey as I talk to experts and share resources on education, creativity, self-care, family, culture and more. I believe we can change the world by starting at home in our own minds and hearts, and that when we do, we'll be passing down the most important legacy there is healing, and so it is. Hello friends, welcome back to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast, super excited to share today's conversation with you. I'm chatting with Amanda Curry and we talk about a ton. I'll tell you a little bit about Amanda, but first, if you're listening to this on the week that it airs, it's the first week of August. So we here in our house and my house are starting to pivot from summer to the more structured routine that fall will bring for us, routine that fall will bring for us. We did decide to put our older two into school this year after homeschooling for a number of years, as you guys know, and that was actually a really hard decision that I personally grappled with for nights and days and weeks and months and years, if I'm honest months and years, if I'm honest. So that decision, though, came in part from needing to free up logistical space, of not carpooling and feeling like we were endlessly in the car, my husband and I, and then also for me, who I need some more time to create and to pour into this podcast and to put some offers out into the world and to build the business and do all the things that I have on my heart. So, yes, I'm hopeful for a good start to the school year. We found a Waldorf school for them locally, and so, yeah, I'm excited. Well, I won't tell you how they're feeling going into it, but I'm sure you guys will get the updates as we go into the school year. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to some structure and routine and rhythm, because this summer we've been super loosey goosey, which I can dig, but I'm so craving that consistency again. So it's so funny how different seasons bring us different, you know, schedules and being either loose or very stringent. So, yeah, all right, let me tell you now about Amanda Curry.

Speaker 2:

We talk about so much in this conversation. The first thing we jump right off with is inner child, and I'm sure you've probably heard that phrase or maybe not, but Amanda really breaks down for us what our inner child is. And when I asked about inner child, I said inner children, and I think I was just meaning, like the collective, like us as a group, who are our inner children. But she pointed out too that people have different takes on, like you know, the different ages they were and how they have multiple inner children, and so I think that's kind of interesting too. I was like, oh, maybe that was like a Freudian slip that I had. Maybe you know, because I've got teenage Ryan and little kid Ryan and baby Ryan, you know all those things. But, yeah, so interested to hear you know what you guys think about that.

Speaker 2:

All right, so what else do we talk about? Oh, we talk about mom rage, we talk about allowing all the feelings, we talk about somatic work. We talk about dysregulation and what I call the dysregulation spiral, which is when someone in the house has like a grumpy mood or has something going on and then everyone, like one by one, like dominoes, we all start to get grumpy, like what is that? So I asked Amanda about that and some tips and tricks on how to get out of that. We talked about codependency and the antidote to codependency, my favorite thing to talk about. We talk about misplaced emotions and yeah, so much more.

Speaker 2:

So Amanda is, by trade and by training, a physical therapist. She well, she's a doctor of physical therapy, a certified oncology specialist, trauma-informed training camp for the soul master facilitator and a level one David Elliott breathwork facilitator. She has a fierce commitment to supporting those who struggle with feeling they are too much and are tired of living in shame and denial of their true essence. Amanda was an overachiever for the better part of two decades and had all the degrees and awards to show for it. She says she was shining on the outside while slowly rotting within. So the statement there has to be more helped pivot her focus from self-help books and cognitive behavior therapy to somatic healing, which she really broke down in the episode what somatic healing is and the different components of somatic healing, because I thought in my mind that it was only having to do with the body, but she had a different take on it which I thought was pretty cool.

Speaker 2:

All right, without further ado, let's jump in to today's conversation with Amanda Curry. Amanda, welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. Hey, what's up? So happy that you're here and I've got extensive notes and there are so many places that I want to go. But let's start with our inner children. I think it's a topic that some of us overlook or maybe don't understand. For me, when I became a mom, I realized how I was mothering these children and was like hey, I never got this myself. When I was a kid, I didn't have, you know, the, the presence or the, whatever the things were that I noticed. And so there was this deep sadness that came along with becoming a mother, because I all of a sudden realized these things that I didn't get. So is that how you frame inner child work? Or like, where do you start when you're talking about our inner little girl? Like, where do you start when you're talking about our inner little girl? Like, where's the conversation? Go first for you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but yeah, you just, yeah, just went straight to the heart of it. Okay, let's do this. So, yes, you said inner children which, almost like I froze, I was like, oh no, I'm having enough with one inner child. But some um, but some people do I don't necessarily subscribe to this, but some people do uh, refer to having, uh, multiple inner children in the form of, like your teenage inner child, your adolescent, your infant inner child. I kind of see it as this continuum.

Speaker 1:

Just as you grew up, you know, you changed and evolved as you got older and that is a question that you asked that has multiple layers. So, to like, start with the end in mind, is our inner child is really, yes, a who we are now is a reflection of what our actual child, like self, experienced way back when. But our inner child now is operating from the script, the modeling, the conditioning that that inner child years ago undertook and that took on, whether it was consciously or subconsciously, and we can get into a little bit of how those things develop in a bit. But really your inner child is within everyone and when you are happy, sad, upset, frustrated, turned on like any of that is actually your authentic self, which, in essence, is your inner child. And so, again, like you can very likely tap into a feeling, a sensation, an emotion, when you are really present and supporting your child, and realize, oh, this is not what I received. And so, though, you are, in that moment, present to grief, sadness, anger, frustration, confusion. Grief, sadness, anger, frustration, confusion that is what's coming up in your inner child, in your system in that moment, but it has a reference point long, long beyond or before that present moment that you're in right now.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, I think that that's, whether we are aware of it or not, as mothers, I think that that is some of the things that start to come up, that kind of nudge us in the direction of oh, you have some things still to tend to within yourself, and it's showing up in your parenting and in your parenting experience. And so that's why I also love this work, because so many women that come to me are like I thought I had all of this figured out and then pop some babies out and there was a whole new layer of things to to hold and to be present to, and so that's just one of the many gifts of motherhood, but also something that we get to choose if we want to dive into that invitation or if we want to take our time in really seeing what all is there for us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I find it so related. Let me know if your clients or you find this experience similar. But I find it really related to like my needs, like meeting my own needs in the present moment, like to back then. As a child. I had these needs, some of which were met, some of which weren't. You know, most of the time when we're kids, our needs are being met by our primary caretakers, right, and so now, like meeting my own needs can feel like an uphill battle, like, of course, because of the logistics of like time, the actual time and physicality that motherhood takes and is, but like there's something there that's related for me, like like learning how to meet our own needs as a kid, learning that our needs are okay, learning that it. You know everybody has needs and we're not wrong or bad for having them. Do you see anyone kind of making that correlation?

Speaker 1:

Maybe not consciously, I think that a lot of people are sharing you know, for instance, whether it's a mom that's more dealing with her partner and wanting having a need to be seen, having a need to be heard, having a need to be supported. That again is very present for those people in that moment. But a lot of time it reflects back to what they learned from mom and dad, and so what we take in from mom is self. So a lot of what mom modeled what we heard from her, saw from her, felt from her or maybe she even felt about herself is imprinted onto us because we are an extension of her, with being in her womb and all of that. And dad really represents others and the world. And so what was modeled to dad or what was modeled to you from dad, is very much how we respond in our relationships and our partnerships and throughout the world now. And so you know.

Speaker 1:

Specific to the question about a need, you know it may be something where a mom is struggling with having guilt and shame around having needs, and so we look back at like, what did mom model about that? What was the energy that she brought to your needs as a child? You're too much. I can't believe that you need that Really again still. And so we imprint that.

Speaker 1:

That is imprinted into us and it shows up in our relationship, as, even if I do have the wherewithal to bring this topic to my partner, I'm still having a lot of shame around it. I'm still having a lot of like inward guilt about it. And then again you get into the other layer of others of you know. Maybe dad met and fixed all of the things back then, and so you are again projecting that need of someone else fixing for you onto others. Or maybe it was mom was all alone in the fact that dad was there but wasn't really present emotionally, wasn't really present to help and support in a physical way. And so all of these interweavings of your experience then and then how it's playing out now really highlight what needs are present and how those correlate to the needs that you had way back when.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's so interesting. Okay, so I'm fascinated by the concept that mom represents the extension of us and the dad represents, like, the world or the worldview. Is that what I'm?

Speaker 1:

okay, um yeah, how you move in the world, how you relate to the world, um, some of maybe, the worldview, but like how, um you see the world, so like if dad was very protective and like the world is scary, it's a, it's not safe out there, people will take advantage of you. Then you imprint that. You get that imprinted onto you of like, ooh, not being trusting and playing small and all of that, and so that's kind of how that plays itself out in relation to father.

Speaker 2:

That's really interesting. Okay, so let's talk about mom rage. Yeah, so I think you know, I've been exploring this in my own life and one of the things that I think is that it tends for me to be a misplaced emotion.

Speaker 1:

So it's never about the dishes, it's never about the socks on the floor, it's never just about that. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2:

And so it's these little like incremental things that are happening externally that we're letting affect our internal worlds, and then we're not tending to our internal gardens, if you will, and then it comes out as this volcanic explosion because we're not meeting our needs or we're not expressing the emotions at the time that they're happening, and so it builds up and up and up until we just go crazy. And so, yeah, let's talk about mom rage. Where does it come from? That's where it comes from, from me. But what are you seeing out there? And what's the antidote? Like? How can we realize that it's a thing and stop it?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I think that this, the more and more that I have dove into this in my own journey, um, the more that I was exposed to, obviously, like the X's and O's of the science behind, like your, um, different parts of your brain and your nervous system, um, and really introducing the five personality patterns from Steven Kessler, all of this has culminated into. It is not just a zero to a hundred. Mom rage is so layered and has so many components to it that it really is not as you would think, and I think that that gives people a lot of permission, a lot of hope, but it also allows you to be like oh wow, what is there to understand about this? And to be able to increase our capacity for. And so that way, this quote unquote mom rage is not necessarily coming out. So, to start from the beginning again, our nervous system as a mom, as a woman in this world, is usually especially for those women that are like have the kiddos like we talked about earlier, that are super small, your overstimulation is likely already resting at like a six, seven, eight all throughout the day. And so a lot of anger, a lot of mom rage, a lot of I'll just call it like a response, an elevated response, is just based on your system being too full, and so a lot of what you get to look at first and foremost is your environment, your five senses. What are the? What's the impact of the volume being so loud on the touch, the sound, the smell, the all the things that you are already setting yourself up for a potential for an eruption to happen, right? So that's the first thing that I have people kind of take stock in and look at, because a lot of people think, like, oh, this is just what it is. But a lot of women don't realize, if you are playing mid morning and you just turn down the lights and just use your lamps, what a difference that can make to your system. Or there was a time on Instagram where, like, it was all the rage to have these little earplugs that you could put in to like dampen the noise. That's what we're talking about is like when you can get ahead, even by a little bit, do that right.

Speaker 1:

The other component to this is we all know that, like, the chaos of motherhood is going to be here forever. It's not about that. This type of healing work washes all of that away and it becomes like you're in Miami on the beach and someone's taking you drinks all the time. We all know, and if you're being sold that it's right away and if you're being sold, that right away. And so the other component too is when we have that acceptance of this is the season of my life that I'm in.

Speaker 1:

What are the ways that we can clear our system, and I mean clear our system in a way that like it's not like I'm going to the spa, it's not like I'm going on just a walk, which can be very therapeutic and clearing very grounding. But what are the somatic practices that we can do to get this stuff stuck energy up and out? So, whether it's somatic, like nonlinear movement patterns, maybe it is going out for a walk, maybe it's breath work, which has been huge for my own journey and for the moms that I've supported is all of that stuck stuff. We get to let that out. Something else called tension and trauma release exercises huge. All of those things are modalities that you get to get empty your system, bring it down to like a three, two, maybe a zero, and so that you have the capacity, the bandwidth to take on the bringing and the crying and the questions and the lunches and the all of the things. So those are the proactive, preemptive things that you can do.

Speaker 1:

The other component is and I talked about this just very briefly is the five personality patterns. This is a way that, depending on what stress pattern you run, I support women in different ways. So it's I'm not going to get super far into this because we could do a whole other podcast on that, but if you look at the book, it's incredible, steven Kessler Five Personality Patterns. People will, in times of stress and chaos, run a leaving pattern, a rigid pattern, an enduring pattern, an aggressive pattern, or they will be an emerging pattern. Usually you have your primary and a secondary. I have a free 90 minute masterclass if you really want to dive into that right now.

Speaker 1:

But as it relates to mom rage, what I have learned is that each of these stress responses, their rage, comes out differently, and that's what I have found to be so incredibly supportive for my own journey, but also clarifying for women, because some people's mom rage is explosive and it's fragmented and it doesn't make any sense and often your partner's like what's going on? Like I don't get what you're saying, you're not making complete sentences. Some women myself will literally like I am in a courtroom. I have all the facts, I have all the figures, I have all the things as to what was not done and when it was done and when it was supposed to be done and how it was supposed to be done.

Speaker 1:

We have some women that internalize their energy so much and stuff it down that when it erupts it is very still inwardly focused but also up and kind of just kind of takes up the presence of the room.

Speaker 1:

And then we have some that are really just so aggressive that it's like I'm just burning everything down around me and again feels very fiery, feels very like chaotic, but like it's everybody's going down with me, kind of thing, but like it's everybody's going down with me kind of thing.

Speaker 1:

And so what I've, what I've really really honed in on in that, is that what is the need for safety of each of those personality patterns?

Speaker 1:

And can we go back to the beginning and notice what is the perpetual need of that stress response and can you give it to yourself more or ask it from others more so that you're not getting to this max point right?

Speaker 1:

So again, if we're using me as a example, the courtroom type behavior is one of the rigid pattern, and so the need to feel, or the need for that pattern is some organization, some expectation, definitely communication about plans and order. And so what I have learned is that I can sense when that is rising because I want to have a hand on something I want to control, and so my partner has very lovingly been able to understand and be aware of this and we get to have conversations about. Right now I'm feeling stressed and what I need is this, and that has made all the difference in my ability to decrease the likelihood and the frequency and the intensity of my mom rage. Do I still pop off from time to time? Absolutely, but the frequency, which is what we're wanting to shift, is really impacted by knowing the need, which is beautiful, how you brought that up earlier. It's like what is the need of this stress response that's coming up?

Speaker 2:

That's so helpful. I thought that everybody was just like a door slammer, yeller, dish thrower, like me, because I am the aggressive type from those that you listed. That's what I feel. My, my body just starts to get like I need to release. This is a good segue into the somatic practices. I need to like release something from my hands, I want to break something, I want to hit something.

Speaker 2:

So oftentimes I'll like go into my closet and bring a pillow and like smash a pillow and not on my finest moments, I'll like throw the dirty dish into the sink and sometimes it's broken and my kids are looking at me like mom's a lunatic, you know. And so, yes, that's my style and I thought that that was everybody's style. So it's funny to hear the other ways, because I'm like, oh, I see little bits of pieces of those as well. So let's segue now into what's somatic work and why is it so important that we are attentive to our bodies and how we're feeling and where we may be having this like tiny hint of constriction and like what that has to do with our emotions and what's coming up on the outside, which is really the tip of the iceberg. It's all the internal stuff that's like happening. So yes, let's talk about somatic work now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and this term has like taken off in the last six months to a year, 18 months, and a lot of people are kind of confused by it. I think a lot of people are seeing somatic practices, like whether it's somatic yoga or somatic movements, the workout which has been doing incredible with that, and I I love that because it's a good access point. I think it's like a gateway drug for deeper healing. But the somatic work is not just feeling your feelings right, the soma being your body, but the three entities of your beingness, which is, yes, your physical body, also your mind, which we usually just love to just stay up in the analytical, critical thinking mind, and then your spirit, like your whatever you subscribe to, but also like an intuitive knowing. So if you don't subscribe to anything or you feel like whatever you subscribe to, but also like an intuitive knowing, so if you don't subscribe to anything or you feel like whatever you subscribe to influences your inner knowing, those three components, and so it's. It's a lot of that um, which is really beautiful because a lot of us again have the thinking done Like we're like check, check, got that, and so the invitation is to get more into the body and also trust our inner knowing. And so when I say get into the body, it's not necessarily it can be movements, but it's also a more of an attunement. So getting into the interoception, which is a term of basically being in tune with what is going on within your body in the form of felt sense. So a felt sense would be like I feel some tension in my jaw right now. It's kind of sort of moving. It feels like not super heavy but not super light, and it's got a little bit of like a dusty, gray, black and it's just it's kind of just sitting there. It's okay right now, but like it's black and it's just it's kind of just sitting there. It's okay right now, but like it's yeah, it's definitely there and so it's using that.

Speaker 1:

But what we do with inner child work, what I do with inner child work, um, is noticing, trusting the intuition of what's showing up on a scent and a sensation based level that is pointing to an emotion, that is pointing to an inner child or your inner child's experience now and then what it experienced way back when. So that is how I teach and explain and understand somatic work to be especially through the lens of inner child work and reparenting and it just feels like it all comes together really beautifully because, especially women that don't trust their intuition or that have a really strong intuition but, if shoved it down, this is a beautiful space for them to be able to trust that, tap into that and then be able to connect that felt sense of like. What's it like to be in full presence of your intuition? What's it like to stuff down or be told or taught your intuition is wrong. You need to refer to other people, you know? So it's. It's a really, really great and impactful practice for women and especially moms.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that you broke that down how you did. That's unique from what I've ever heard, because I thought it was only body stuff, because we do have the mind down pat. I think like in school and as kids and our generation, we were taught like use your brain, you're so smart, you're so this, you're so and it was like get the A. You know, at least in my house that's what it was like it was. There was a huge emphasis on, uh, my intellectual world.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And so there was much less on the body piece, and so I didn't. Even until after I became a mom, it was like birth was like this, this like reckoning. For me it was like, whoa, look at what my body can do. And I've never quite been that present. Yeah, feelings like how I was in that birthing experience.

Speaker 2:

And so I think, that was like the portal for me. Now, you know, I think feeling, like feeling the body and like I feel, like I've put it in a way where I'm like catching up from like decades of like not feeling or expressing, and at a certain point I was like, if I start crying, like I feel, like I'm never going to stop.

Speaker 1:

Exactly Very good, very good.

Speaker 2:

And and that was years ago, now that you know I'm, and still I have those moments where I I remember that and I feel that too. Um, but so what's your take on sadness, grief, feeling like, well, I can't go there Cause it's going to open a can of worms, Like I think some of us are scared to feel it, right? Yeah?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the biggest thing when I came into this work five years ago was, if I feel the thing, my fear is that it will break me Full stop. I have so much to feel it will break me, and what I I'm going to start from where you originally started talking is when I got into this work five years ago, I was looking around the virtual space that I was a part of. I was looking at the retreat that I went into afterwards multiple treats and I was looking around and I was like where are my people? There? Are these 20 something early 30 something, some in relationship, nobody married, nobody had kids and I remember I found he's still a really great friend of mine and his wife and I have facilitated some retreats together and he was the only married individual, I believe, but definitely the only person that had kids at the retreat that I went to, and I remember thinking like this isn't right, this can't be it, and so what I want moms that are listening to this is that this work is not just for the 30-something tech that is working remotely and able to take two hours or two weeks to go on an ayahuasca journey in the Amazon.

Speaker 1:

What I think is so special about this is it gets to be both. So do you have three hours in a day to feel your feelings? Probably not. And can you fully feel everything that you're present to in that moment as you're juggling three kids under six? Probably not. But the thing is is that you do have little pockets of time in each day and I get pushed back on what I'm about to say. But I find that if it is a bodied, grounded experience, your children need to see grounded, safe anger. They need to see righteous anger. They need to see you standing up for yourself and expressing your emotion, not at them, but like within yourself. Mom is, she is about to have her cycle and she is really sensitive and emotional, and so if I cry today, please know it has nothing to do with you probably, and I'm just feeling a little bit sensitive. And if they can feel that your energy is contained within your system in a controlled and safe way, most times they're like, okay, cool, mom's doing the thing.

Speaker 1:

And oftentimes you will find, like my kids, where my daughter will go. She's pissed, she is like she has to energetically get it out as well, and so she'll go to a room and scream into a pillow and come back and be like I'm done, or, like you know, they'll say I'm having a hard day, like I'm really having a hard day. Okay, thank you for telling me that Now there are boundaries of how we respond in having a bad day. But I want to give women the permission that, like, we don't need to silo our emotions into this box of like I can only express them in this moment. And so, yes, I can imagine and I'm very empathetic to the feeling and the sense that everything that I have built up is going to outpour and it's going to explode and it's going to break me and I'm going to crumble and all of these stories to crumble and all of these stories. That is where we are limited by our mind, because our mind only can conceptualize what the body has experienced. And if it hasn't experienced it, it's going to create a story to keep it safe. So it is a response to something that's unknown and that's something that feels unsafe.

Speaker 1:

And so I can say from my own experience that the more that you ride the waves, the more that you actually find that you only need 90 seconds to feel an emotion fully, to let it just run through you Like it is a fact, there are scientific studies around it, and so I think that the more that we dismantle this notion of it all has to come up now and when it all comes up it's going to break me the more that I think that women will be like okay, cool, because again, like the Amazonian ayahuasca journey, you don't have to go jump in to the shit pool of all of your feelings, right, you get to like turn the nozzle up.

Speaker 1:

And then you get to turn the nozzle down and that's part of somatic work too is like this sensation in my jaw is a two right now. Okay, I'll let it get to like a seven or an eight. Okay, that's too much. Okay, I'm going to ground, I'm going to take space and distance from that part of myself that's lighting up that people don't realize that with this work, you have full autonomy, full control, full like means to go as fast or as slow as you want. And so that is like my Ted talk on women and moms. Expressing emotion is that of course it feels that way. Of course it does, and you get to feel that way and also cultivate more safety, to continue to feel more and to challenge the stories of that it will break you, or that maybe you watched a family member break? Yeah, cause they probably weren't tending to themselves until they did break.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, totally I think for me too in my experience, like being able to access and have the capacity to feel those quote unquote like I'm doing, air quotes negative or hard or bad emotions, like I think it opens up a portal to feel the joy and the blissful.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yes, snaps to that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Talk to me about the our resistance to feeling that joy and like basking in the gratitude and the bliss and all those, um, really like oxytocin, producing uh, emotions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so this is. You're like vibing so much with what my past beliefs were. Is that? Yes, I believed that whatever I needed to feel or had to feel that this zoom does that I'm sorry that it gave it. It gave it. It gave us a thumbs up, ryan and I are doing okay, yes, anyways.

Speaker 1:

So, yes, there was a huge belief of this is going to break me. And then there was also a belief of I lack empathy and I am unable to access true joy, like I literally 100% believe that I was just. You know, like you can't French braid hair or you like you, you're not able to whistle both two things I cannot do. But there was just this resigned, that's who I am. And if I've learned anything again, just a little peek into the five personality patterns One of the difficulties that someone that runs a rigid pattern and stress has is they're cut off at the neck and the waist, so they have a hard time accessing their heart and their intuition and the waist, so they have a hard time accessing their heart and their intuition.

Speaker 1:

And so I noticed that as I was less in pattern, the more it felt safe to drop into my heart space, which then correlated to randomly crying at a TikTok video, because I really felt moved by what this person was sharing or allowing myself to like have the tear drop down as I watch my kid, just do something nice for his sister or for me, or even just to like take in things that I've accomplished or ways that I've responded differently and not just be like, yeah, amanda, good job for not blowing up, but like really from a heart-centered space, feeling like damn, like good job for not blowing up, but like really from a heart centered space, feeling like, damn, like you just did that, like you are changing the trajectory of your family's life by doing this, and not it just being again in this cognitive space, but like full body feeling all of the things that you are experiencing.

Speaker 1:

And so, yes, I have both witnessed myself and in my clients that the proportion of your ability to be with agony and grief and despair and frustration and anger and rage correlates to the pendulum swing to the other way for you to feel joy and contentment and flow and peace, and all of that in a more present way where it's not just like oh, I'm happy for them, but I actually am embodying the feeling of happiness, of joy, of contentment.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So the invitation here is to allow yourself to access all the emotions, to be able to feel all the emotions. So if you're somebody who, like me, thought oh my God, I can't start crying because if I do I'll never stop, like, allow yourself to see that, a it won't break you, like you said, and that, b it opens up your world to experience so much more. And then it becomes like for me, it's become like muscle memory, like oh, I'm starting to feel something now.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and not always needing to define it or why, or where did it come from? Or what is it? Because I want to make like a mind map on the whiteboard of everything that happened to me and everything that it could be. But we don't have to pinpoint what it is, we can feel it and move on. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I love that you're bringing that up, because I had this experience recently. Is we always like, yes, want to attribute, like I feel joyful because of this, I feel expansive because I'm at the beach with my family, I'm feeling lonely and angry because my partner isn't tending to my needs. So recently I took in the ridiculous show of the bear, and so if anyone has watched the bear, you know that it is. It is something to behold, and what I noticed is that I started to feel and this is apart from all of, like, the family drama that goes on and all of the dysfunction specific to Carmi's experience, the main character in this I started to feel these things of my past self, and so what was interesting and it was a beautiful exercise of I'm feeling these things that I used to feel, not because someone has triggered them within me, but because I am attaching an experience and a similarity to theirs, and it gets to be there and it gets to feel the way it's gonna feel, and I don't have to have an attachment for this moving or changing or shifting. It's here to teach me something. I get to be present with it, and like the sky is not falling, and so that has been some of the most recent ways to like experience maybe more dense, less favorable emotions and sensations, without getting wrapped up in the story of like, oh my God, I'm regressing, I'm getting worse now, oh Lord.

Speaker 1:

Or maybe subconsciously, this means something about my partnership or my relationship with my parents. It's like, just let it be, just let it be. It's so funny to watch that and I'd imagine that because my heart space is so opened that five years ago I could have watched that and I would have just blocked it out. I'd just been like cool, this is a great storyline, great acting, cool for him. But, like you, you notice that you feel and experience life more vibrantly when you start to do this healing work and feel like, oh, I'm safe to feel something that feels maybe a little edgy.

Speaker 2:

Totally. I think this goes back to the misplaced emotions thing too. Like I'll see like a baby on a commercial or something and I'll be like, oh, I'm not going to have any more babies, oh, I'm feeling so sad. And then like, maybe, like move on. And then later, like the sadness comes up again. Like you know, when we're not allowing ourselves to just feel it, then it pops up again because it it wants to just be felt.

Speaker 2:

So just feel it, and then and then go on Give it the 90 seconds to give it the 90. Yeah, I love that. Okay, so I want to talk about something that's pretty present in my house. I'm aware of it, I see it and and I'm still trying to figure out the solution and I call it like the dysregulation spiral.

Speaker 2:

So one person will be in a grumpy mood, let's say for what, who knows what reason, just not having a good day, and then all of a sudden, the other people in the house start to like latch on to that grumpiness and domino effect, domino effect. And so then everybody's like fighting and the and the world is just like burning up around us and we're all grumpy all of a sudden. So for parents who have experienced this, like kids maybe, like one of my children is pretty strong willed and she will like become this little tornado when she's having a hard time, and I'm like, okay, don't get sucked into the tornado, don't get sucked in. And sometimes we still do, and definitely her siblings do, because they don't really they're not aware of what's going on. Um, so what's your advice on the this like spiral that can happen?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I think, uh, first and foremost, it starts with us. So, like parents, you are cognitive being. You have now the responsibility to tend to your own triggers and wounds and what comes up. This is not to say that when you wake up in the morning and roll over and you're like I'm in a shit mood, that you then shame yourself for being in shit mood. Okay, so that's, that's when I just give that preference reference. And so what it does mean is that you get own, like your energetic energy presence that you are bringing to the table right A lot of times.

Speaker 1:

This is very empowering that you can just say hey, I'm feeling off today. Hey, like I have low bandwidth, you can say this to your partner, say it to your kids. Hey, mommy, just I just woke up in a funk. So, like I may be a little bit quiet, maybe a little bit short, I want you to know like it's okay, like you're okay, we're all okay. If you start to feel kind of funny, just let me know. Like, if you need a hug, let me know I'll see. You know what I have bandwidth for, not that you're going to deny your kid a hug, but like extended touching time, all of that, and so this also kind of feeds into the five personality patterns, because some of these patterns, they respond to your stress in a certain way. So some will usually do really well where they'll kind of like cave in, internalize, and then you may not feel or see a shift in them or, if anything, you feel a little bit of distance from them, and usually that's okay, cause you're like I'm just swirling in my own stuff. The ones that you sometimes will I see this most like manifest with is what you said is the leaving pattern and the merging. So the merging will take on the energy of someone around them and so maybe your kids are taking on the energy of whatever the patient A is, or like the source point of the poor attitude, or just the lower, you know, vibration, and so sometimes that can take on like they just literally mirror what they're feeling.

Speaker 1:

A lot of times there's also a need to fix or change, and that is sometimes where we can't just let our kids be in a bad mood. We have to like label it, judge it, be annoyed by it, instead of just like letting them be this primary energetic being floating around and like, yeah, maybe it feels a little heavy and dense and reactive, but like I have my own energetic bandwidth that I am responsible for Right, that's what I find happens most because a mom specifically is annoyed or worried about what's next, and that that I almost said patient. That kiddo may feel that and feel kind of a judgment of like I'm not okay to be this way, and so it can. It can go into a I want my space, but mom's trying to fix, mom's trying to question, mom's trying to figure it out, instead of letting them just be in their space and naming it to the other kids Like, hey, kennedy's having a hard day this morning, we're going to just let her be. If she needs something from us, we're going to let her know that. And then you obviously can, as a parent, put boundaries around like you can be in a bad mood, you can be off. These are the things that are still expected of you, and so I think that sometimes that's how things tend to grow and shift among a family, where then you're all dysregulated.

Speaker 1:

And I think that the more that we can learn and teach our kiddos like I am my own being, and I can kind of keep my energy here and not feel like I have to look and make sure things are safe.

Speaker 1:

And the amount of times that we tell our kids like it's safe for somebody to be dysregulated as long as it's not affecting your safety, that like that gives them a lot of permission to just be like, oh, okay, cool, I'm just going to go brush my teeth and like, get my backpack together and I'm not going to feel like cause kids can also feel too If this is stressing mom out, I got to, not, it's going to stress mom out, she's going to yell, so I'm going to help. And then that makes things worse. And then there's this like Ooh, but but am I doing it right? But I don't want. And then again, the dysregulation doesn't have to come in the form of like frumpiness. It could just be like dysregulation of worry, of like yeah, any of that. So I think that it feels very esoteric to to share in that way. But I think that the more that we as adults can notice what's going on in our system in a response to what's showing up with our kids is, first and foremost, like what I would tend to.

Speaker 2:

First, yeah, and oftentimes I find that the calmer I am, the quicker whoever the grumpy person is, comes out of the funk, or just like, perhaps, does something that they need for their body to work through it, whether that's walk outside, you know, go to the way down, like, so the calmer I it's.

Speaker 2:

I think of it. This always helps me. I think of it as like them borrowing my calm. Right, their brains are not fully developed. I'm like they can borrow my calm. So the calmer I am, the more helpful it is for the situation. This reminds me and just like kind of. The next thing I want to talk about is like your take on codependency, like for me.

Speaker 1:

I yes, let's do it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, good Cause. I feel like for me and this is not like a formal definition I like I'm just kind of diving into these concepts, but for me it's like I'm okay Even if you're not okay, and if I'm not okay, you can still be okay.

Speaker 1:

So like if once like anti codependency. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, totally, yes, exactly. So like the antidote to codependency. Like you get to not be okay and I can still be okay, right Cause codependency is you're not okay. Oh, my God, I'm not okay either. What can we do to fix it Right?

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So what's your take on that? Because that's something that I just tell myself all the time. It's okay for someone to not be okay, I can still be okay, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Um, so I didn't realize that we were going to talk so much about the personality patterns today, but all of your questions really like revert back to that. To answer one other point that came up for me with the kids of, like letting them be in their space. So the other day I've started to use this and realize, like my kids are old enough now I've I've identified their patterns. So Kennedy the youngest is merging and then leaving, and so if I look at the stress response of the need to feel safe, what is a merging pattern? One that runs the merging pattern need. They need connection, they need to know that they're connected. So she was losing her mind the other day because I think she was hungry, for God's sakes, and so I needed her to do something and I was like, okay, I have a choice right now. I could just keep yelling and repeating myself or what does she need? And I was like, oh, this is going to be perfect. So I said, kennedy, come here, I'm going to give you a hug, I'm going to spend five minutes, I'm going to give you, like, only attention. We're just going to sit here, we're going to hug and then, after the five minutes is up, you're going to go get a snack and then you're going to go to your room and you're going to put your clothes away. It worked like a charm and I was like, oh, I did the thing, it was the need. So if you can identify start to identify what your kid's patterns are, you may be able to meet that need of like what they need. So someone that runs a leaving pattern doesn't feel safe in the world, and so maybe it's you, your, your teenage girl is dysregulated and she's all worried about what she's going to wear and that like it's just she's ruining her entire day because what she wanted to wear is dirty. It may be as easy as going to her and putting your hand on her shoulder and being like whatever you choose, you're going to be okay, you're safe in whatever you choose, deep breath and like so it's, it's getting to those things because it's not. Oh, let me, let me clean it really quick. It's not fixing it for her. What is the inherent need of the pattern? So, getting to your, to your question now, yeah, I love that. This is like melding in so well.

Speaker 1:

So, codependency, you explained it very beautifully. I find that that happens most often with those that run the merging pattern. Because what do they need? They need connection. I didn't get enough. I didn't get enough, so I need more. I need more. I need more.

Speaker 1:

It's this endless, bottomless hole of needing to be filled, needing to be filled by other people's happiness trying to be filled by your own happiness, which usually doesn't work, and being filled by doing for others and doing for others to a point that they're happy. And then the connection train continues connection, connection, connection. And so the more that people realize, ooh, wow, I'm in this codependent state because a need isn't being met in connection, because I didn't get that need of connection met when I was little. And the more. What those people need is to know that I'm capable and that I can give myself what I need. And so that has, for the couples retreats that we've done, the personal work that I've done with one-on-one clients. I do not. I'm anti-dependent, I am the furthest thing from codependent.

Speaker 1:

That is really what I would invite people that are listening now that struggle with codependency pick up the book or he has a free website that is incredible that you can put in the show notes if you want. What does that pattern need? What do you need to feel safe and connected first to yourself. But notice, when there is a lack of connection or a feeling of disconnection, how do I cling to others? And a lot of times again partnership, but that's when the kids. That's when the kids. Things happen where it's like I just want to make you happy, I'm just doing so much, like I don't understand why you're not happy. He's just, he's a teenager. It's not going to be connected to you. He doesn't want to be connected to you. He's not supposed to be connected to you, you know. So that's kind of my riff on on codependency.

Speaker 2:

Amazing. Yeah, I've been diving into this myself because I realized recently, like when my oldest was in my womb, I was like I'm going to stay home. I had like a business on the side, but my primary focus was like I'm going to be a stay at home, mom, which if you would have told me that like 15 years ago, I would have absolutely laughed.

Speaker 1:

and been like. What are you talking?

Speaker 2:

about, and so I decided. Just my intuition was telling me like this is the thing, and it was and it was a huge growth journey. But what I'm realizing now? She's about to be 10 in the next like few months, and I'm like, oh my God, I've been putting my needs aside for my ambitions, my career, my personal time, I mean just multiple things in order to sacrifice myself, to make me feel like I'm doing some good for them and protecting them and keeping them safe.

Speaker 2:

And and I was like, oh my God, what a sticky little pattern that was, because I think that I'm doing this good thing and I'm just, like you know, sacrificing myself for for my children, and really it was like kind of a a sneaky little pattern there that I've been on recently. And so I'm in a, on a mission and in a season to meet my own needs, first, emotionally, physically and otherwise, absolutely, absolutely, and that's actually a flavor.

Speaker 1:

What you just described is a flavor of merging.

Speaker 1:

None of them have like a subset except for merging, and it's called merging compensated. And so that is that martyr, that savior complex that, like I get my value out of doing for others. And the anger piece, the mom rage of that, is like how could you, like I do so much for you, like do you not understand what all I've given up for you and what I do every day and how I think about you, and like that's what that rage will come out as. And it's yeah, it's something that I'd imagine again. Merging and merging comp that a lot of moms, because of the way that we are set up as people and in being the primary, you know, caregivers for kids, most of the time that that those things can start to come on and surface more maybe than other individuals and we just get to be an acceptance of that and like, oh cool, new awareness, starting with the acceptance, and then we get to go through the other five stages of healing so that we can not be in this pattern all the time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, totally, the work that you're doing in the world is absolutely beautiful. I could talk to you for like three more hours.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure it's so fun to do Like it's so fun yeah it's so fun.

Speaker 2:

So thank you for being here, thank you for the work you're doing. I'm going to ask you the three questions that I ask everybody at the end of the interview. I love before I do. Yeah, totally Before I do. Where can we find you, follow you and learn more about the work that you're doing?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I keep things really simple. Again, we got a lot going on as a mom. Everything that you could ever want to know about me is on Instagram. My handle is the somatic DPT D, as in David, p as in Paul, T as in Tom, and that is just my credentials as a physical therapist, which I do consultatively now. So, yeah, I mean I have free resources on that. I've got free content on that. You can message me or DM me there. My link tree is on there. It's just the easiest way to get in touch with me. So, yeah, super excited to have anybody reach out that has questions about this podcast or anything else.

Speaker 2:

Perfect, I will definitely put that in the show notes. So just scroll down and follow Amanda Sweet. All right. So the first question I have for you to wrap up is what's?

Speaker 1:

bringing you joy today, really connecting on this um, on this call, like I, I really really anything to move the needle forward, um to women. Um, I'm currently like in launch mode for our group program and I got see, I'm doing the thing where I'm feeling the thing, Um, instead of stuffing it. I have been able to be in contact with so many incredible women through the DMs and Instagram and what I'm finding is that and this is a whole other podcast for a whole other conversation, or conversation for a whole other podcast is that not every woman out there has the financial resources to dive into these, these big endeavors. And what really I was present to last night that I shared on my stories, is that, whether it's free content that I'm giving, or it's a $22 breathwork session, or it's a one-on-one package or a group program starting in September, I want every woman, every mom, whatever your financial situation is, no matter what your age, your kids are, support from your partner or not.

Speaker 1:

I want women to have access to these tools because some of them, yes, you can teach them on your own and it can be free or can be very cheap, and some people, like you, get to a spot financially where you can then invest in one-on-one work or group work, but, like no woman should just be like, hey, sorry, you don't qualify Like I just think that that's a bunch of BS and I'm just. That also is bringing me joy that I've created this so that it is inclusive, because I just don't want moms to be like, oh, it's not for me, yes, it is for you. Like healing is for you. Like contentment, flow, peace, less reactivity, it's all, it's all there. So that's really what's like present for me right now in the form of joy.

Speaker 2:

That's amazing.

Speaker 2:

I think back to when my oldest was like a baby and we were just like trying to survive on one small salary at the time and it was like a whole new world and I, you know, didn't have the resources or I didn't think I did it and the time you know all of it and didn't even know where to start. So for somebody who may be in that situation, like what a beautiful gift. So thank you for that. Yeah, the next question is and you mentioned the book which I will link up it's called the five personality patterns, right? Yep, you mentioned that, but the question is now what are you reading right now, if anything?

Speaker 1:

So I just got done with permission to feel I cannot think of the name of his.

Speaker 2:

I heard that yeah, um, mark, no, yes, I know who you're talking about.

Speaker 1:

It's, it's very um, or it can be very business-based, but I I was introduced to the mood meter that he created and his team created Um and I thought that that was really helpful because, apart from, like, identifying sensations in the body, we're we're really terrible at identifying emotions. Like, if you've watched Brene Brown's well, listen to any of her podcasts or the docu-series that she did she had to go through each of these emotions because people are like, oh, I'm either sad, mad or glad. Okay, there's more than that. So I thought that that was really helpful and I've started utilizing that as a resource for clients. So that's the last book that I finished.

Speaker 2:

Amazing. I will link both of those books up in the show notes. And yeah, the first time I saw the wheel of emotions I was like holy shit, look at all of these so many options to choose from, so nuanced, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I love that and you can use that with your kids. I actually used that with my son last night. He got really emotional about being in course this year or trying it out, and he was just upset and I was like what is this? And he was like I don't know. And I'm like no, I don't know as a protector, so like let's get this out. And he was able to point to, he was stressed and so we gave him the night to kind of process and then in the morning he was like I'm stressed because I'm afraid that if I mess up people won't like me. So it's like it's a, it's an easy tool for your kids as they start to get older to be able to utilize and I just love that that I have this access to use these tools, because a lot didn't get them or have them.

Speaker 2:

Totally, and what a beautiful resource to share with your son too, because I would have automatically gone to like oh, you seem really nervous. Or like I would go to like projecting your own thoughts. Yeah, Like putting a label on it, but instead allowing them to like, choose from, like a blank canvas or like different choices, like what resonates for them I would have never guessed.

Speaker 1:

stressed from that description you know right yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's big Um, okay, and then the last question I have for you is who or what has taught you the most?

Speaker 1:

Ooh, wow, um, I mean bar none. If we're to go to a who, it would definitely be my mentor. Uh, not Perry, she? Um is the founding founder of training camp for the soul, which was the program that I got into um, what I was certified in and what I now help with, and so she has been very pivotal to my journey. And then if I were to say a, what I mean? Motherhood duh like, I mean just this whole journey, this whole thing that's going on right now, um, definitely those, those two things is what I would say.

Speaker 2:

Totally, it is uh, not for the faint of heart, motherhood that is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you so much again for being here. This was such a beautiful conversation. Yeah, so fun. Thank you for having me on and thank you for putting this out in the world. Hi again, friend. If you're listening to this, you made it to the end of a Raising Wild Hearts episode. Yay, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so you can hear more amazing conversations just like this one. And here's the deal. If you made it this far, go ahead and hop down on your podcast app and rate and review the show. Your words and five stars truly mean the world to me. Thank you for your support of the show. Thank you for showing up and listening. Week after week, I will be dropping new episodes every Monday, so tune in then and I will talk to you soon.