Raising Wild Hearts
An inspirational show focused on growth from challenge and ideas to take the path less traveled. Ryann Watkin interviews experts and shares resources on education, creativity, nature, spirituality, mental health, relationships, self care, and more. Ryann is a passionate speaker, mom, wife, and educator who asks questions that provoke self-awareness, meaning, and purpose. Psychology, spirituality, family— and where they all intersect— is the heartbeat of Raising Wild Hearts.
Raising Wild Hearts
Finding Peace in Family Dynamics with Amy Stone
Today, Amy Stone is joining us—Amy is a coach for stepparents and Founder of Amy Says So. Our conversation sheds light on the multi-hued reality of blended families and how to find peace no matter what the external circumstances are like.
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The good news is that you actually are the author of your own story, right? So when you realize that you have all of the tools that you are going to get and begin to like build it yourself is usually when it turns around.
Speaker 2:Welcome, revolutionary Mama, to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. I'm Ryan Watkin, educator, mom of three, rebel at heart and passionate soul on a mission to empower and inspire you.
Speaker 2:Here we'll explore psychology, spirituality, parenthood and the intersection where they all come together. We'll discover how challenges can be fertile soil for growth and that even in the messy middle of motherhood we can find magic in the mundane. Join me on my own personal journey as I talk to experts and share resources on education, creativity, self-care, family, culture and more. I believe we can change the world by starting at home in our own minds and hearts, and that when we do, we'll be passing down the most important legacy there is healing, and so it is. Hello again. Welcome to the Raising Wild Arts Podcast. So happy you're here. Today. I am talking to Amy Stone on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Amy is a mentor and a coach for step-parents. As a mentor and coach, she supports adults and blended families with tools and strategies to empower them to create a life they love. We talk a lot about self-awareness and self-ownership and creating a life we love. We talk a ton about parenting, step-parenting and also parenting our own children. Amy has done both. She really has a wide range of experience and wisdom. Amy understands that it can be a little scary to ask for support when it comes to questions about your relationship with you and your family, but coaching with Amy is a safe space where you can set down your concerns with somebody who has decades of personal experience as a stepmom and even more years as a child of divorced parents.
Speaker 2:We talk a little bit about Amy's journey and how, as a child, she came from a quote unquote broken family. I'm using that in quotes because we talk about how that phrase is just super outdated and not actually really accurate. Amy says through coaching, you will receive support and learn strategies to help you organize the new family roles, identities and even the household duties, so that all members of the family will feel secure, beloved, confident and valued in your duties. So that all members of the family will feel secure, beloved, confident and valued in your home. This is not just about the kids, this includes you. She says, and it's one of the things I love so much about the work that Amy's doing.
Speaker 2:She brings it all back to this internal space and, as we know, as we talk about a ton on this podcast, it all comes back to us as the parents we talk about so much in this interview. We talk about a happiness construct that society sells us. We talk about the phrase a broken family. We talk about the hardest thing about becoming a step parent. We talk about different parenting styles, communication. Amy is just a wealth of knowledge. She's super wise, super funny and it was such a joy to speak to her. So let's dive into today's conversation and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Hi, amy, welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Ryan. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm happy that you're here. So one of the things that sparked my interest when we had originally scheduled this interview was that I had a step-parent growing up and so it was really relevant for me and that was the lens that I thought of it, because I'm not a step-parent, but I can imagine what my stepfather must've been going through, cause I was not an easy stepchild. I was like pretty spunky and I remember doing the whole and this is probably kind of cliche, but like you're not my dad kind of thing, when he would try and, like you know, assert authority over me and I'd be like, well, I don't have to listen to you, you're not my dad, authority over me and I'd be like well, I don't have to listen to you, you're not my dad, and so over a number of years our relationship evolved.
Speaker 2:Obviously, I'm an adult now with my own children and our relationship has evolved from then to now tremendously, but I can imagine in those early years how challenging it must've been for him and other step-parents in the situation of becoming like a new parent to this human that didn't come from you. So let's just yeah, let's start there of like someone who's maybe a new step-parent or maybe someone who is step-parented themselves, like set the foundation for us of like what to expect and why it's important to consider all of this.
Speaker 1:So I wish I could tell you that in my own story I had been real intentional about learning about it before I did it. I wasn't, and I think that that's pretty common. So one of the challenges that I think that people face as they are building this family construct is that they simultaneously think they know what they're doing and what to expect, and also nobody knows what's going on. So you were a kid doing the best that you could with the information that you had being a kid, and I don't know how old you were when you said that to your stepdad. The interesting thing is, if he had even your actual dad, you probably would have just said you're not the boss of me.
Speaker 2:Right, totally Same Right.
Speaker 1:It's the same. It's really a message of don't tell me what to do, yeah, and then at the same time, the adult is stepping into something that they often think that they know what they're doing, only to find that wait a second, no, I don't know what I'm doing and it is a really, really interesting. So one of the messages that I offer people to consider is like try really hard not to pin your happiness and your contentedness on the construction of your family or the construct of your family. Right, try and keep those two things separate, because they don't actually have to be connected. Like we do get this very marketing message in, at least in the United States, that happiness comes from a diamond ring, a big house, a dog that doesn't have heartworms, and you know clothing subscriptions. You know like that's right. You know it's like the message we get. But if you zoom out, we know lots of people who are married and happy, or unmarried and happy, or married and really unhappy, or divorced and thrilled with their lives, single parents who are happy and unhappy. You know it just is not as connected necessarily as it has to as as it sometimes seems like it is.
Speaker 1:But one thing that I have found is true. It's really surprising. I didn't realize this 25 years ago when I was beginning this journey, but I see it now that I'm teaching it right. So if you have a first family connection where neither one of the people has been married before and first children, type thing, you are stepping through a routine that has been defined for you by your culture and it's very familiar and you are sort of swept up into like something that is very familiar and easy to follow.
Speaker 1:If you are a foster parent who goes through a system and wants to become a foster parent, they put you through a training, right, like you have to apply and prove that you're, like, not a bad person Hopefully they do a good job with that and then you go through a training. That is, you know, everybody probably wishes a little better than it was, but at least it exists. If you're going to adopt a kid, same thing you have to apply and you are connected with resources, right, and it depends on how you do that, what resources you get. And you are connected with resources right, and it depends on how you do that, what resources you get. Step parenting, holy crap. You just walk in and do it and nobody knows you've done it. Nobody tells you what to do, nobody tells you how it's supposed to work, nobody gives you a guidebook. And the kids, the kids, even more. The kids are like I don't know. Nobody asked me that.
Speaker 2:What am I?
Speaker 1:supposed to do, and so what am I supposed to do? And so that is one and the way. I like to be more optimistic about it, the way I've described it to you. It's very intense and uncertain what you're going through, and that sounds horrible, but the good news is that you actually are the author of your own story, right? So when you realize that you have all of the tools that you are going to get and begin to like build it yourself, is usually when it turns around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so there's so much that you said there that I want to unpack. You know, one of the things that really kind of sparked my interest was this happiness construct like that sold to us and marketed to us. Basically, and on the same token, I think you know I grew up with this kind of broken home story, right and so I hate that phrase.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I grew up with that a little and I don't know where it came from. I'm not that wasn't like a phrase being thrown around in my house like broken home, but I think it was just from. You know different messages I received from society or school friends, wherever A lot of my friends had both of their parents, and so I felt really weird. I felt like there was something kind of wrong with me. So my question is is like I wonder how many families, regardless of the construct like, understand that healing is a prerequisite to happiness or just contentment? You know what I mean? Just like probably not very many actually, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Right, the guess is right. Like people come and they're like hey, the problem is I'm fighting Not many, not many things, and the solution, almost always it begins with how you think of yourself and how you feel about yourself and why you're choosing to make the decisions you're doing. And the more healed you are and healed is a healed implies there was an injury before, but it's still the best word but the more complete you are, the more aware that you are complete. The better you're getting, the more happy you're going to be about the decision you make. Like right, like so to make turn this into like a totally random external example of how that works. Right, like when you go and, like you know, renovate a kitchen and you spend two years thinking about it and you make every decision very carefully, right, you just love it. Right, you love every single decision. If somebody walks in and they're like, oh, I'm not crazy about the color of your cabinets, you're like I don't care, I picked them and I love them because you know it was really. It was you you made all of those decisions. But if you rush through it and you're just trying to get it done and you just take suggestions from everybody else. Sometimes you wake up and you're like why is it that I have linoleum countertops when I hate them, you know, and it's because you didn't make your own decisions. You didn't, you know. It's like stuff seeped in from outside and and so I don't think that a lot of people do know that the answer is the healing and I think that I think that part of that is that that's the kind of that's the kind of work that can be hard to do because it does involve looking back often at the things that occurred in your life that have shaped the way you're seeing the life today and that can feel a lot like regret and it can feel like shame and it can feel a lot like regret and it can feel a lot like shame and it can feel a lot like embarrassment and those don't feel very good. To be honest, they don't feel very good.
Speaker 1:So, similar to you, my parents were divorced, but I distinctly I think I'm a little older than you I distinctly remember people describing my family as broken. So my parents were divorced. I was raised by my dad, which was pretty unusual in the 80s single parent dad and I knew that it was unusual and heated, and I remember, I remember people saying it to me like, really, like you know, like you know, this is going to be harder for oh, it must be so hard for you, coming from a broken family. And even then, as like a, like a adolescent, I remember thinking I don't, I don't feel like my family is broken, like small, sure, but when we're together I don't feel like it's broken. And I never I have used those words now in the last five minutes more than in the last 10 years of my life.
Speaker 1:But yeah, when I started this business, I was doing a oh, I was doing a podcasting mixer actually is where this conversation happened. And I met another person who was a relationship counselor and they said to me they said it's so nice that you help broken families. And it was like a two by four to my gut because I was like no, the families that I help are not broken. And I just think that's a weird thing. I think that the phrasing from that comes from people who are pitching um, a very you should do it my way kind of message. Right, because for something to break, there has to have been a fall. It implies the implication is there that something has gone wrong. Right Things, that when something hasn't gone wrong, um, the thing is don't break Right. So like it's like something has gone wrong and you've done something wrong, and so I think it's very hard to get that message without internalizing it that there is something wrong.
Speaker 1:I don't know everybody else's story, but in my parents' story, the divorce was the first step in healing. It was actually an improvement, and I think that while nobody starts their marriage thinking, oh, I'm going to get divorced, I do think that in most cases we don't rip families apart because things are going well. So it's helpful to look at it and say you know, there was a reason for this split and the divorce. No, divorce is never easy. It's a complicated procedure, but it doesn't actually the divorce itself may not be the problem. The divorce is like a step in the recreating of something that hopefully can be, can be better. It's like it's like, yeah, this is not working. It's like, you know, the divorce is the cast, it's like the step and so, yeah, that whole broken family thing. I just actually put that up on my social media. I was like what do you think about this? So I think people throw it around without realizing the like shame arrow that it throws at people. It's like boom it's your call.
Speaker 2:When you said the word embarrassment, I was like Ooh, that's really interesting. It's one of the emotions that's come up for me lately in my dreams. Interestingly enough, I don't feel embarrassed maybe ever like in my waking hours, and the past few times I've dream journaled, I'm like what is this embarrassment I'm dealing with and I wonder if it's related. Because I was little I didn't have a relationship with my dad. I say that I didn't know him because I was so young when they split no memories, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. And so I would say to people like oh, I don't know my dad and and I think there was some of that because I was so little, I think there was like a little embarrassment because the standard where I was from was that both parents were together, at least what I saw. That's really interesting. So also, what's all and this is like a three line for every conversation, almost every conversation we have on this podcast is that it's all an internal job.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that's yeah, no. The good news is coming from inside the building.
Speaker 2:The call is coming from inside the house. Yes, so you know, I always think that's just like a good thing to highlight and put a pin in because we need that reminder. I mean, I need a daily reminder, like I know it logically and I still need to feel into it and integrate it daily of like, wow, my kid or my husband or whoever really pissed me off, but this anger is mine, it's not theirs, it's all mine.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I mean, you're right, they don't. They don't. They're not aware of it, they don't know about it. It exists totally within your own body, like it cannot possibly be anybody else's responsibility. But that's like that horrible lesson of like adulthood. It's like it's me, it's always me, it's always me. When does somebody else going to pick up the slack here? Oh right, just me. I'm the only one.
Speaker 2:You are the one you've been waiting for, babe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so true. So I'd love to know. Well, I'd love to know a lot of things. But let's start with control, because you kind of hinted at, regardless of the person, when I was like a teenager or an adolescent me saying you're not my dad or don't tell me what to do? La, la, la la. It's all about control, and we have this um, I can speak for myself. I've had this um, massive, sometimes unconscious, desire to control and make very particular what my children are doing, how they're speaking, what they're wearing, et cetera. I mean, the list goes on right, right, and I'm aware of it. But let's break down control a little bit where it comes from, why we have this tendency to do it and why the pull is so strong to control other people.
Speaker 1:So that's a really wow. That's a really is so strong to control other people, so that's a really wow. That's a really good question. So controlling other people, specific to like it can be a lot of things right. So it can be rooted in the fact, like from a step-parent right, stepping into an uncomfortable environment, that can be like that. They are feeling out of control of their own life, so they are trying to control things that impact other people in the house to make themselves more comfortable. So a step-parent might try and control, get more control over the calendar that's happening in the family that's a common struggle. They might try and control, put more control on the mealtimes and they very specifically sometimes try and control the behavior of the children right In my case.
Speaker 1:So I did not have kids when I became a step parent. My step kids were four and eight when I met them and I learned very over a couple of years that being a child is not actually a good training for raising children. I knew a lot less about childhood than I thought I did, because I don't actually remember being four and I didn't know that. I didn't know it and so, like I share with people all the time, I'm like I created a lot of misery for myself and probably my stepkids because I was unaware of what was normal age appropriate behavior for kids that age. I thought my stepkids should be quiet in restaurants and eat what they ordered off the menu. They should sleep in later on the weekends. I thought they should sleep in their own beds on a regular basis. I thought that they should be quieter all of the time and I was wrong about all of those things. I was wrong about all of those things and I didn't know it for several years.
Speaker 1:And I offer that to people who are going through this, because there's a huge space there to really give yourself a lot of guilt for making mistakes, for this, but you truly cannot know what you don't know, and so that's, it's a place to give yourself grace for. Oh, here I stepped in it again, you know, and let me redo this, let me walk it back. But so the control thing can come. We try to control other people when we feel like we need more control over our own lives. Right and like letting people do things and realizing and accepting that we don't have control over them, or what they do or think or say is is, you know, gosh, I wish it was easier. I really, really do, but it's hard for a lot of people, and so is that question that comes up. It's like you know, why do I feel like I need to boss you around A lot of times it's a weird funhouse mirror of how we feel about ourselves.
Speaker 1:So I'll give you like a hypothetical example that doesn't actually exist and is not about anybody me or you or anybody else. But if you felt like your parents never dressed you up cute enough in middle school and you didn't have the clothes you liked, maybe you obsess a little bit about making sure that your kids look good every time they go out of the house. So then, if your step kids or your kids are sloppy dressers or they're colorblind and they don't match things the way you want them to, or they always pick the top shirt on the pile, or they just don't do it, they don't do what you want to do. They only want to wear the princess dress, or they only want to wear the blues clue shirt and you're like, no, I want you to wear this cute thing that grandma bought you might freak out a little bit more than you wish and exert a lot of control over that situation, thinking that what you really want to do is have your kids looking cute, when what's actually happening is that you are reflecting your wound, feeling like you didn't have enough attention on that when you were a child.
Speaker 1:That's not always the case, right? Sometimes it's much more surface and it's like, hey, we're going to the PTA meeting and if you guys wear a dirty shirt, you know, susie, pta is going to talk about it. So please, you know, wear a clean shirt. Like that is a reality of life, right? That is a reality of life that people are actually looking at us and that, does you know? That does impact things. If I'm going to the bank to ask for a mortgage, I'm going to get dressed up. If I'm going to a job interview, I'm going to get dressed up. So, like I'm not ignoring, I'm not bypassing the reality of the situation that it is perfectly fine to care about how you look and it's also perfectly fine to take care in how you present your family to strangers. But when it goes outside those boundaries, there is the chance that you have something that's pushing you to try and control in others what you felt like you didn't have control over in your own life.
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah, we talk a lot also on the pod about this pendulum swing, so things that we feel like we didn't have. Emotionally or physically. Perhaps we swing all the way to the other side emotionally, or physically perhaps we swing all the way to the other side. And I think, like a lot of where that comes in and where a lot of people resonate with that is like permissive parenting, like not knowing how to flex that authoritative, like middle ground, because many of us were raised in authoritarian households and so we don't want to be too controlling or putting the hammer down, and then we swing to the other side and we kind of go permissive.
Speaker 2:I know, for me I did that quite a bit in the beginning. My big kids are seven and nine now and I'm seeing in a lot of ways how even when they were two and four, I would have changed some things, I would have not been so loosey goosey on some things and you know vice versa. So I think like the pendulum swing is really important to be aware of, like where might you be swinging in your life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the fear of like, sometimes with little kids, right? So there's a book that I refer to a lot which is called the blessings of the skinny Right. And then, for older kids, the same lesson is offered in a book called how to raise an adult, and the theories that are presented. It's really it's like the allowing your children and different phases of life to make small mistakes so that they learn early and not later, right Like. So you know you've got an overly protective parent who's like don't fall, don't fall, don't run. You know you've got an overly protective parent who's like don't fall, don't fall, don't run. You know, wear jeans so you don't skin your knee. But the blessing of the skin knee is that the kid learns the consequences of the fall and they are naturally, inherently learning how to modify their behavior. And and so you know, people love the concept of natural consequences, but they, it's very, it's actually, you know it's tough. It's tough to let people that you love do things that are risky, right, totally. And and so, yeah, like we accidentally will, will overcompensate. I will say so. My kids are all grown, my stepkids, my youngest is now almost 18. And the good news is that, with all of those things the kids mostly figure it out, even when we make mistakes. So, like you know, and we worry a lot about, did not know how to like boil water and it was like hilarious, we mercilessly teased this person, but she did eventually figure it out, right, she figured it out. It was funny, but she did figure it out.
Speaker 1:My stepson I found out last year. My stepson, when he went to college, did not know how to do laundry and I was like how did that happen? How did that happen? But he has figured it out Like he. It was like how did that happen and how did that happen? But he has figured it out Like he.
Speaker 1:It was like you know, you had to figure it out then. And you know, like I wish I could roll back time and give him the whopping 90 second lesson and here's how you do this Right. But he did figure it out and I confirmed with his wife that he knows how to do it. You know, it's all right. So even if you are permissive or even if you overcorrect on these things, either way, they do tend to to even out over time and it's not, it's just it I do personally think that there tends to be a benefit to letting them do it younger, because the stakes tend to be less, and I'll realize that like. So, like learning about falling when you're two feet tall is a less painful experience than when you're five feet tall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think too, when they're, you know, to let's say, 10 and under, for the purpose of this conversation they're like sponges and so I think things become more cemented in their unconscious and you know the the neurological pathways like, just like, have that fresh snow to ski down, so to speak, you know. So I think there's something helpful when they're really little. I'm the mom in the playground where my kid climbs up the tree and I'm standing there going. I know, I know you can get down because you got up, like I'm here, I'm waiting for you a, but like I'm good, you're good, are you safe?
Speaker 1:I'm safe.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll wait here as long as it takes for you to climb down that tree. I am here, I am witnessing you.
Speaker 1:And that is good I have. Two of our four kids were like walking examples of a non-developed frontal lobe, Like you could like watch them when they were young, like not things, like things all the way through and we did a lot of like it's like so you're on the roof have you thought about how you're going to get down, you know what's your plan? Right, it was like no, didn't, and it's like all right, yeah, let's talk it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so good. Oh my gosh, it's so funny how some kids are just more prone to to not having that be automatic. You know it's all like temperament and genetics. What else Like God laughing at you know, these kids that we got, whether they're our kids or our stepkids, who are just teaching us so much about you know, being a human and how different perspectives and different ways of doing things like work in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, absolutely yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:So here's like an analogy that I think of when becoming parents, like I think I had this like runway to go off because, like you have this infant and you're like you're like having this like really long runway and you're like watching this like slow pot boil, so to speak.
Speaker 1:But when you become a step parent.
Speaker 2:You're like, you came in and your kids were four and eight and you didn't have any other kids before and this was like the biggest like baptism by fire there could ever possibly be. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:It is. It is a rapid, intense transformation and you don't, I, you know, even if people tell you, people do tell you, people do tell you and it's just impossible to understand because exactly that. So like the example you gave, it's like okay. So you know, if it's an intentional pregnancy, right, you know, it's like, you think about it, you plan it.
Speaker 1:Then you have all this time where you're just like mulling about people throw you a party or maybe two, you get a bunch of presents, right, assuming things go well in the delivery process, you like have this like wonderful experience. And then you know, the first two weeks, this super sleepy little worm that you know is not I mean, it's a very stressful time and I don't want to, but they don't do. When you look back after, that, you know is not. I mean it's a very stressful time and I don't want to, but they don't do. When you look back after that you realize, oh well, they weren't actually doing very much that first few days, not like a lot, but there wasn't a lot Some of the easiest times for me.
Speaker 2:I think Exactly, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So and it's a big and that is a big change but it's slow, no-transcript on like a Friday to living in a new place, so like a move with my partner and every other weekend and one night during the week his kids like and there's a point where it happened from day to day and that's like immediate, you know, it's like immediate and I didn't have any longer have a place to go back to, like you know like before that it was like all right, see, I'm going home right, right.
Speaker 2:You're like oh, this is my home, this is my circus and these are my monkeys.
Speaker 1:Now, oh, god, right, exactly, it is a step parent. Often it's like is it? I mean, this is my circus, but are these my monkeys? Like, what do I get to do here? Like, can I tell you? No, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty. Yeah, um, until you define your own house rules and your own identity and your roles and um, and first parents go through that too. It just is slower.
Speaker 1:Right, it is slower because there's all these like conversations that are like, you know, and also both people in a first parent situation are coming to it often with the same level of naivete. Like you're both first timers, so there's totally acceptance of and yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. My husband thought I cause I studied childhood development college, I babysat. I was 10 when my brother was born. I was like, oh, motherhood, I totally got this like gonna nail it and so we have our kids. And, spoiler alert, it was nothing the way I thought it was going to be. And he was like I thought you said you had this. Like you said you knew what you were doing. I was like no, I don't Turns out, I don't.
Speaker 1:Shocker, didn't know. Not quite the same. Reading about, you know, parenting styles and discipline in a book turns out to not actually be the same as doing it in your house. I do love it. This doesn't always happen, but a lot of times teachers go through this rude awakening. They're like wow, navigating a classroom between the hours nine and three is not actually the same as managing my house 24 hours a day. It's different tools. I mean they, you know it's different tools. But yeah, the um. That is in my case. I totally thought my husband, uh, knew a lot more than than it turned out that he, like he did. I remember looking at him like you, this is your third kid, you're supposed to know about this diaper thing, as he's like pinching his nose and trying to find an excuse and I was like unacceptable, unacceptable.
Speaker 2:Totally. Oh my gosh, I love it. Oh yeah, it's nothing, nothing like anyone thinks it's going to be. So let's talk about different parenting styles and do it. Yeah. This is so relevant because I think, in general, step-parent, parent, grandparent, even everybody has their own idea in their own mind about how things should be done, maybe like the ideal version, and then the version that we kind of strive to hit, and then like the reality version that happens, and I think those three, like you know, versions are different, probably for everybody.
Speaker 2:I mean, there are so much, so many resources out there that tell us about parenting styles that attempt to educate, but let's talk about how we navigate it in our own homes, like when one parent wants to do something different and the other one feels comfortable doing it another way 100%.
Speaker 1:My personal take on this is I think that it's almost like a personality type. Most of us have a little bit of all of these parenting styles in us at different times, right? So you might have a person who's very permissive with playtime on the playground and authoritarian about allowance and finance. This is the way it needs to be done. Don't ask me, just do it this way, right, my other and so like that acceptance that usually there's not one that works all the time. And my joke about this actually a joke about this is that I promise you that even the people who sell write books on conscious parenting and peaceful parenting, right, which I love and think is great. I promise you that when the family has had the flu for a week and you've got four kids under the age of five at Target, peaceful, planned parenting is out the window. It is survival of the fittest, thank you. It's like we're just going to make it through. We're going to yell a little bit, I'm going to bring you some chocolate, I'm going to hope for peace, I'm going to scoop you up and run. It doesn't work all of the time. This is a marathon event. This whole parenting journey, I mean really it's so much longer than anybody can even conceive of. So parenting styles are how we interact with our kids, and I think that breaking apart different things can be really helpful here. So like separating out, you know, discipline and punishment, you know, as different things, allowing there to be different styles for different type of events, making a possibility that different parents in the same house are going to interact in different ways and that that can be okay as long as the bases are covered. That's also a possibility. And then the other thing that I like to offer to people is that often, when you're seeing a mismatch or you're feeling a mismatch of what you think is a parenting style disagreement, it's that your values have not been as a family, you haven't spent the time to make sure that you're working towards the same thing and that people have the same value judgment on things.
Speaker 1:So I'll give you an example that can show up in a first family or a blended family in a bunch of different ways, which is homework, all right. So a lot of times in a first family or a blended family in a bunch of different ways, which is homework, all right. So a lot of times in a family, people have different perspectives on how we're going to interact with homework, right. So you might have one person who comes from a high achieving academic family and a couple people might be teachers, and another person in the family might be someone who grew up with a learning disability or was a low performer or a late bloomer, right? And so those show up as fights over how we're going to do homework and you're not doing it right and you're not. You need to do more. Like this kid needs more support and you need to do more.
Speaker 1:And we think that that's parenting style, like I'm more disciplinarian and you are more passive. But what it might actually be is that there's a missing discussion of how do we feel and prioritize academics for our house and having the discussion between the parents about what's important to you and what's not, and how do you do that. And it shows up with one parent might jump in or a step parent might jump in and another person will opt out, and they never have that conversation, and so the person who's opting out gets tagged as being permissive, when really it's just not their priority, right, it's not their priority, and so I offer people the space to be on the lookout for that Once you come into alignment right on what your goals are together, then you can then the parenting style of how you're going to enforce that has a lot of leeway, has a lot of leeway, right. So, like, once you know, like so, say your value statement is you know, you have the conversation, you realize that one person really wants everybody to do really well.
Speaker 1:The other parent introduces hey, that may not be possible. You know, like, what about this? You have the whole conversation and you come out with an idea and a value about supporting the kids in school. Right, then how you apply that might be different for different parents and grandma. Right, it's like it's like it might be very different. Grandma might be like I'm going to sit with you at the table Cause I love it. Dad might be like I don't care, just get it done, cause I told you. And mom might be like dude, what were you doing? Bringing this like you know seven, why, why didn't you turn this in? And and all of that is okay Because it's all based on the fact that we agree that we're going to support the kids in the school.
Speaker 2:I love that you brought it back to values, because I think, as a family unit, if we can even involve our kids in these, a hundred percent do we value as a family, to filter all the decisions that we make through right Um? So one of the last things I want to talk about before we start to wrap up, and I ask you the three questions I ask everybody at the end is unconditional love.
Speaker 1:Okay, very good, yeah, so unconditional love for me is first, first of all, unconditional love. If it's done, it takes us back to this first question, right? Because the first person you have to love is yourself, even if you don't realize it, right? Like it's like that, that kind of weird thing that if you are starting from a spot of I'm not sure I'm lovable, it's very hard to effectively give unconditional love to somebody else. Love to somebody else Unconditional love is, from my position is allowing people to be who they are, even in their worry, farty, noisy, eating, imperfectionist, towel, leaving on the floor, snoring selves, and you know, and allowing and be and still being there to support them.
Speaker 1:Conditional love, you know, is more like I'm only going to love you if you behave well at the dinner table, right, I can only show up for you if you do these things. But unconditional love gives you the space to separate the person from the actions that they're doing and just say I'm going to love you and it's going to show up. However, it's going to show up. Unconditional love is not always like soft, right? Unconditional love can sometimes be I deeply, deeply love you, but I cannot be with you while you do this to yourself, right, like you know, and that's that's it.
Speaker 1:When my kids were little and actually the step kids too they would sometimes ask that question, which comes up a lot of like hey, if I was a murderer, would you still love me? Like, if I did something really bad, if I was a serial killer, a money launderer, like whatever they're watching on TV, right, this is what comes up like the worst thing they can imagine, would you still love me? And I can remember back to my early days and thinking to myself. I don't know, because you know you look at people standing by their kids who have done things and standing by their partners and being like I don't know why, are you still with that person? Right?
Speaker 1:But in a way, that is the sign of unconditional love, is it's like? It's like you know, I love this person, this deeply imperfect person. If they show up tomorrow and tell me they think they're a purple dragon, I'm still going to love them, even though I'm not going to understand that. You know, if they tell me that, even though they got a degree in chemistry from an Ivy league school, they want to be an actor, I might question that decision, but I'm going to be there to do what I can for them. That kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I love those examples. Yeah, you know, I think it's like it's one of the things I've been thinking about lately, cause I feel myself get a little prickly when my kids are like getting on my nerves and I'm like am I withholding my love right now? And there's like this fine line between like holding my own boundary and like needing to go for a walk and like withholding like a snuggle. You know, there's like this line and I'm like toe in the line always is Amy, and I think we all are.
Speaker 1:We all are. And, like we started by saying you gotta be able to love yourself and there's also you gotta have the energy, right. So parenting young kids is an exhausting event and um, and sometimes, right, sometimes, sometimes you need a break and that comes from that, comes from that. So, like I, there was a big thing when I was a, when I was a young mom, like so fitness is a part of my life. Like I love running and stuff like that and juggling that with the schedule, I mean repeatedly.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you would say you know well, you shouldn't be away from your kids, and I was like I'm not going to do that to myself because I knew that for me, I was able to show up in a much better way. If I, you know, I did plenty of running, with pushing kids with sippy cups and strollers, like I did plenty of that too. But the day that I got to have that like hour and a half, two hours, away from my kids and focus on myself and get a shower and come back, I was able to show up in a better way. And so I giving myself permission to take care of myself, which is going to look different for a lot of people right. Some people it's cross stitch Sometimes. Some people it's church, some people it's running, you know, whatever it might be, some people it's judging and Netflix. I'm not, I don't judge, but giving yourself permission to take care of yourself so that you can take care of others, oh, that's a big one.
Speaker 2:That's a big one. It's a big one. I mean, it's a cliche. For a reason like that, you can't pour from an empty cup. I mean, everybody gets that. Like everybody gets it. We feel ourselves being depleted and we go like there's nothing left and sometimes there's like no choice but to just like push through because of our partners traveling which is the case for us a lot of times or whatever the life circumstances happen to be during that day or that week it's like sometimes, you just have to push through.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you just have to push through and seeing that as borrowing against your future is a helpful thing. For that I have a very clear memory of like standing in the middle of my house and like everybody had the stomach flu, and I was like everybody except me and I was like looking around and I was like, there, there's no one, the only option here is me. Like like there is no other choice. It is me and that's it, and you know. And looking around, like is there an adult here, adult that knows what to do? You know like, oh, how did this happen that it's me. And then you know, yeah, no, it can be, it can be disheartening, but it's, and it's also it's funny.
Speaker 1:I so a friend of mine did a class the other day on burnout in a networking group I was in, and she shared this resource about like the phases of burnout. Sometimes people say they want it to be like a modern thing, that's only happening to people today, but this guy wrote this in like the late sixties and and so I think that I think that you know, you know it's easy to try and blame, like social media and technology and remote working and whatever, and I firmly blame everything on the pandemic and the lockdown and will forever. I think that's a good excuse, because it can't fight back and um, but it's it just is. It just is learning to cope with it in whatever ways we can is is is what we have to do.
Speaker 2:Totally yeah, and I think you know, for me I've had to discern like what's healthy coping versus unhealthy coping. For me, like maybe for some people on, like healthy coping would be sitting in front of Netflix, but I can feel myself, when I'm doing that, going this isn't really what I need and so it's like that, coming back to loving myself enough to know like this actually isn't filling my cup, like what's the? List of 10 things that fills the cup Like go do one of them. Most of them are free.
Speaker 1:Most of them are pretty convenient, you know, get outside, move your body. But I also I will say they're definitely. I don't know if everybody does this, but there are definitely seasons of my life where I'm like, okay, I know that these are not the things that I need to do, but I'm gonna give myself one hour or five days or whatever, to cocoon in my little pity corner and, you know, read this book or binge this thing, and then I will, you know, take a shower and get outside.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it. There's like it's so cyclical, it's so seasonal and to know that like maybe you're in a winter and that's okay, like there is a time for that. You know. And I know that's hard for many of us ambitious women. Um, sometimes when I'm in the winter, I'm like here I am and spring will come again someday.
Speaker 1:So yeah, martha Beck wrote a book a long time ago about her North Star, and she has this thing. I think she calls it cocooning, but I'm not sure. But she's like, if you're going to do it, do it Like lie down, cover yourself up, lean all the way into it for however long it takes, so that you can emerge. Um and um, you know but and that's fine when you can do it. But there are also, like we were talking about, there are those times where it's like okay, so what I would like to do is run away to a yurt in the mountains. It does not appear to be an option, so instead I'm going to buckle down and get through this.
Speaker 2:That's right. I'm in one of those seasons right now. I'm like, oh, you're in a mountain, that sounds fantastic. Busy, hectic, chaotic season. Our youngest is a boy and a toddler and super high energy. And everyone tells you like, oh, boys are so different. And I'm like, no, I don't buy that. And I'm like now I'm like, okay, whoever told me that boys are different? You all were right. He is like a wild man, so yes, so yeah, it sounds great.
Speaker 2:All right, I'm going to ask you the three questions I ask everybody at the end of the interview, and the first one is what's bringing you joy today?
Speaker 1:So what's bringing me joy today is that I have changed my schedule. I'm working hard to change my schedule and getting up a little bit early and I actually get to see the sunrise outside, which I love, and it's bringing me a lot of joy when I do it.
Speaker 2:Love it. I love a good sunrise too. We're on the. East Coast also the next question I have and thank you for your book recommendation earlier. That is totally on my list. I feel like that's come across my awareness before the blessings of a skinny. But what, if anything, are you reading right now?
Speaker 1:So I have, like some, what is it? I'm reading some fiction book that I can't remember the title of, so that's a terrible recommendation. But I go through. I have like the Libby app on my phone and I go through and I just put the best-selling fiction books like onto my list and and I go through it that way and do that, and then I'm rereading Radical Acceptance by Tara Brock. I've read it like many, many times, but I'm going through and reading it again amazing.
Speaker 2:I think I've read that one too, a long time ago. That's going back on the list too. I have a really long queue of books and everybody here knows my queue is like out of control. Um all right. The last question I have for you, amy, is actually before we ask the last question, tell us how we can find you and follow you and learn more about what you do.
Speaker 1:Oh, sure, sure, sure. So my name is Amy and my company is Amy Says so, and so all of my amazing resources can be found at amysayssocom. I have a podcast which is called the Amy Says so Show, where you can find my coaching philosophies, my thoughts on family and stepmotherhood and that kind of thing. I also do interviews of stepkids and stepparents. So, ryan also do interviews of stepkids and step parents. So, ryan, you could be a guest and talk about your experience being a stepkid, because I like to offer I call it real talk. I like to offer people like real stories, people just getting it done, you know, without without running it through the. It has to be a, you know, a super dramatic thing. There's plenty of drama to go around, but we don't have to do that. So that's all at amysayssocom, and there's some free resources there, which gets you into my email community, which is where I share all my best stuff.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you, I'm going to put that in the show notes and thank you so much for the work that you do, because obviously I say it a ton the ripple effect is real and, um, like, this is a very niche topic and it's not a topic that you see everyone like chit-chatting about being a step parent or, have you know, being a step kid, like none of it, and so I think it's really important to kind of get out there and, and you know, have solidarity with those other step-parents. So, thank you, and the last question I have for you is who or what have you learned the most from?
Speaker 1:Oh, the most, like the most, the most, like the most, the most, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2:You know, like today, as of now.
Speaker 1:Today, as of now. To narrow that down to one person, good heavens you know I'll do. I'll be super sappy and I will throw it out there. And I do think there's a lot of truth in that, the little people that we surround ourselves with. They can be children, they can be stepkids, they can be nieces and nephews right, they can be strangers down the block. But the, that small human and the way they see their life and the way they do things is often such a powerful mirror of who, who we are and what we're doing. If we have time, I'll tell a really funny story about that. Like and now we see it so like.
Speaker 1:So I was a risk-taking kid as a as a kid, but I actually didn't realize that when I was doing it. This is a realization about myself that I have come to be aware of as an adult. I thought I was delightful as a child and as a teenager I didn't know why, but anyway we were having a, we had a kid that had violated curfew and not called home. So we were having like a family discussion in the hallway and my husband was like I just don't understand. I just don't understand. And the kid was saying, but the show wasn't over Like I was fine, I don't understand what you're so worried about. Like I was fine, I knew exactly where I was. And my husband was like totally mystified and didn't get it and was just hammering the kid.
Speaker 1:And meanwhile I was having this like out of body experience because I had that exact same fight with my dad as a teenager. I was like I was like I could remember myself being like I don't understand what the problem is. The concert was still going on, I was fine, I don't know why you were worried. And he was like oh my God, you have to call me and um, and so we like we, we break apart in the modern day version of this and my husband is like I don't know what he's thinking, I don't know what's going through his head, and I'm like, you know, if I can just offer this one, I might, and maybe we can all just take a deep breath. Uh, okay, it was like, and it was just like the reflection of me in somebody else allowed me to see that moment that had gone through before in a totally different way. In a totally different way. It's the weirdest feeling, but also a very good teacher.
Speaker 2:Totally. So many of these moments we have with our kids any kids. I think kids are just so wise to the universe, even though they don't have prefrontal cortexes yet or that they're not developed yet. I just think they're so wise and there's like these full circle moments so we can see. It's like the circle of life. I agree there's so many things like that we can source from. Well, thank you so much for showing up today with your wit and your wisdom and your humor. I appreciate so much. Thank you for having me, yeah.