Raising Wild Hearts
An inspirational show focused on growth from challenge and ideas to take the path less traveled. Ryann Watkin interviews experts and shares resources on education, creativity, nature, spirituality, mental health, relationships, self care, and more. Ryann is a passionate speaker, mom, wife, and educator who asks questions that provoke self-awareness, meaning, and purpose. Psychology, spirituality, family— and where they all intersect— is the heartbeat of Raising Wild Hearts.
Raising Wild Hearts
Letting Go of Expectations and Finding Flow in Life's Challenges with Andrea Pollack
Have you ever faced a crossroads that reshaped your entire existence? That's the story of Andrea Pollack, whose transformative decision to leave her bustling New York City legal career to homeschool her autistic son redefined her life's trajectory. Today we're uncovering the profound lessons learned when society's expectations collide head-on with the realities of nurturing a neurodiverse child. Andrea's journey is a testament to the power of authenticity and presence in parenting, offering insights that transcend beyond the conventional.
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Sometimes it gets really complicated, because people have a view of what we should be doing or the way we should be acting, and we want to meet that expectation. But at the same time then we are asking our children to meet expectations that are not appropriate for them.
Speaker 2:Welcome, revolutionary Mama, to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. I'm Ryan Watkin, educator, mom of three, rebel at heart and passionate soul on a mission to empower and inspire you.
Speaker 2:Here we'll explore psychology, spirituality, parenthood and the intersection where they all come together. We'll discover how challenges can be fertile soil for growth and that even in the messy middle of motherhood, we can find magic in the mundane. Join me on my own personal journey as I talk to experts and share resources on education, creativity, self-care, family, culture and more. I believe we can change the world by starting at home, in our own minds and hearts, and that when we do, we'll be passing down the most important legacy there is healing, and so it is. Hi friends, welcome back to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. Super happy you're here and I'm happy to be sharing another amazing interview with you. I had a super fun time talking to Andrea Pollack today. Andrea is a mom of two young adult children. She did it A former lawyer in New York City and an advocate for parents of autistic and other developmentally challenged children. When her autistic son was not thriving at school, andrea left her 19-year law career to homeschool him. She later went on to earn her master's in education so that she could most effectively help parents get swift and lasting results without years of trial and error. Now, with years of experience and research under her belt, andrea is sharing her wisdom with the world through autism parent solutions.
Speaker 2:This conversation was super amazing. I always love talking to parents of adult children because there's this sense of like wow, you made it. I say that quite frequently, and Andrea is no exception. She is a wealth of knowledge. I really appreciated her perspective on so many things we talk about a ton. The conversation went in all different directions. We talked about her leaving her career, because I was so curious about that, because I oftentimes have moments in my life where I'm like, should I, could, I would I be doing more in my career if I could, and so I loved getting her take on that. We talk about mindset when facing certain parenting issues and really how that's the key to all parenting is our mindset, and then parenting really almost has nothing to do with our children, ironically so, which honestly for me feels like a breath of fresh air, because it's our role as the parents to be the leaders we want to be, to set the pace and the tone of the household, and very little of any of that has to do with our kids or their behaviors. We also talk a little bit about society in general and its feelings towards children, and then how Andrea's approach is different from a traditional behavioral therapy approach and how she is focused on a parent-centric approach. She's a coach for parents and I do believe and I've said this multiple times that having a guide, a she's a coach for parents and I do believe and I've said this multiple times that having a guide, a mentor, a coach, can be so valuable on this journey. Sometimes we need someone to mirror back our brilliance to us. Sometimes we need someone telling us you're doing an amazing job, I love you, keep calm and carry on.
Speaker 2:So if you guys want to reach out and let me know what your favorite takeaways are, hello at Raising Wild Hearts podcastcom. Or you can find me on Instagram, which lately I have not been very active on, but I'm at Raising Wild Hearts and one day I promise I will be active on there again. Right now, priority is doing these amazing interviews and editing and publishing them. So, yeah, as my schedule shifts, I will get back into the groove of social media. Also, I am writing a book Actually, I've been writing a book for years and years and I may be sharing that journey on social media so you guys can follow alongside of me. So yeah, so yeah, if you don't follow me yet on Instagram at Raising Wild Hearts, and I'm also on Facebook at Raising Wild Hearts. Also, if you're an ambitious career kind of a gal, I'm on LinkedIn and actually I'm most active there, believe it or not. So, yes, follow me in all the places and come alongside me on my book writing journey, as I will start to share bits and pieces of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, let's get into today's interview with Andrea Pollack. Andrea, welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. Thank you, it's nice to be here. Yeah, it's great to have you. I'm really excited to chat. Thank you, so nice to be here. Yeah, it's great to have you. I'm really excited to chat with you. I find your journey pretty fascinating and it looks on paper, as though you had quite the calling to step away from what sounds like a very successful career to home educate your son. Will you tell us about that journey and how that started?
Speaker 1:Sure, well, I was a lawyer for 19 years, which is what you're referring to, and my son was diagnosed as autistic when he was two and we looked for a school for him and we actually helped to start a school with some other parents and it was a great school, but not a good fit for him. A try. I had no idea what I was doing, but I was going to pull him out of school and follow his lead, you know. Allow him to show me who he was so that we could meet his needs.
Speaker 2:Wow. So you said allowing him to show you who he was. That to me is so profound and so much of what I believe our parenting journey is is just noticing and observing who our kids are. And then the other piece of it is like letting them be, that Like we're so busy, like trying to get them to become somebody that so many times we're forgetting to let them be who they actually are. And so I'm interested.
Speaker 2:Your son got diagnosed with autism at two years old. You chose to step away from your career. Was there because I oftentimes kind of grapple with this piece myself? I'm a homeschooling mom of three. We've tried different, various education. You know philosophies and ways over the past few years and there is in the background of my mind a little bit of like what about my needs? What about my career? What about my this and my that? And so I'm navigating this balance of like, having these, this podcast, you know the different passion projects, the self-care, all of that. And then also you know putting everything or some things aside to say, okay, this is my essentially, like my number one priority. Now, when you were going through that process, was there any of that present? Did you miss your old career. Did you ever think, like one day, when I'm done with this business like you know, the business of educating your son that is I can't wait to get back into the workforce, like how was that for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love this whole topic. I did not navigate it beautifully the way you sound like you're doing. I didn't expect it to be eight years. I did homeschool him for eight years. I did not expect that.
Speaker 1:So I thought I would be getting back to it more quickly, and I did allow myself to be lost in so many ways in the process and, to you know, subjugate my needs to his. But I also felt, though, that as long as he wasn't thriving, it didn't matter what else I was doing. I wasn't thriving, right. So the illusion of having that great career and being all the other things really was just an illusion. If my heart was, you know, so broken by what I was experiencing with him, he just was uncomfortable and unhappy and not thriving. So, you know, I guess the idea that we can talk about a balance is really just an idea. I didn't really have a great balance, but, yes, it absolutely came up for me, and I think it's a really important conversation, and it's part of why I do like to help parents now, because I don't think they should get to, you know, the end of an eight or 10 year journey and say, wow, I really should have paid a little more attention to my own needs, my own self.
Speaker 2:So how did you meet his needs? You know I'm hearing you say that your needs were put aside for at least a few years and you know I think there are probably seasons for that Over the long term. Things kind of do balance out. I'm interested in that whole idea. But so while you were kind of putting your needs aside, how were you meeting his needs? What were some of the things that really worked for you? When you brought him home, how were you observing and then meeting him where he was to make sure that he started thriving?
Speaker 1:Well, I did a number of things. I tried as best I could to educate myself in different modalities and you know I did. I felt a lot of pressure to do it right right, that's, you know, to do it correctly. But he was so withdrawn that I really just had to focus on creating space for him to come to us a little bit, because as long as I was trying to impose upon him some modality or some you know type of therapy or some parental agenda, I just knew that I was, you know, encouraging him to go more deeply inside of himself. And so I knew that, creating that space, which was hard for me, I, you know I was an achiever.
Speaker 1:You know that was a really important lesson for me to learn. And you know, like, when you talk important lesson for me to learn, and you know, like, when you talk about putting my needs aside, I think part of what I was trying to convey before is like my needs were his needs too right. They were so intertwined that I wasn't putting like my need for him to be happy was stronger than my need for me to be a lawyer. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, beautifully put. That's a great point. You had a duty and an obligation to see that he was well cared for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it also was my heart right, it was. You know what made you know getting up in the morning, worthwhile kind of thing, you know.
Speaker 1:But, I also learned that, you know, that journey of trying to figure out how to meet his needs which is the question you asked was so much personal growth for me that I wouldn't have had available to me had I not gone on that journey. Right, I became, you know, the person I think I was meant to be, the person I wanted to be, without realizing that that was the path.
Speaker 2:Wow, I deeply resonate with that. I sometimes wonder who I would be and what I'd be doing if I chose not to have kids and I don't even think that was ever like. I always knew that I would be a mother. But I wonder, if I made that conscious decision to not have children, what I'd be doing. Because I think in many ways, especially my oldest child, who's my daughter, who's nine currently she has really gently nudged me, let's say, to becoming a better version of myself as well, to practice that patience, that simplicity, the peace, the calm, the witnessing of her, the witnessing of my own needs, just all of it. And then, progressively, with each kid that I added on, I've kind of had this like up level of like, wow, I'm, I have the capacity for so much more, so much compassion, so much empathy. You know, it's really, it's really amazing. You know, I think for me it's it's been a calling for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I also think for me. I was raised to be a doer. Like I said, I was an achiever, I was a doer, and both of my children I have a daughter as well, who's two years older than my son helped me really learn to be a beer, like to be a human being, not a human doing right, which was a really important lesson. I didn't realize that I was missing that in my life until they showed me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and now, as they've grown, how old are they now?
Speaker 1:27 and 25.
Speaker 2:Okay, Awesome. So as they were growing and as they're grown now, how do you continue to model to them being a human being instead of a human doing? Have they taken that from you? Because I know as kids grow into teenagers and then to young adults, they may have this underlying need to be doers as well a lot of the time. So I'm curious how that played out for for them too.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, well, I think once, uh, once you see it, you can't unsee it. Do you know what I mean? So there's a little bit of um. You know, what I learned early on in the journey was that I had to be real. I had to be a real person. I had to apologize if I made a mistake. I had to really look at why I was asking them to do certain things or why I was creating a certain limit or all of those things right which you know, I hadn't really thought as deeply about. I was just doing, I was doing all the things right. And I think once your children see you being a person and considering their needs and trying to understand what's going on under the surface and all of those things, then they grow up appreciating that as well, which doesn't mean that they don't have to fight the urge to be doers too. My daughter is an incredible doer, but at least from an early age she had this idea of like let's just be real people here, let's talk, let's understand, let's communicate, let's collaborate.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful, I think, when my husband and I I think one of our things that we can always say that we've done a great job of and we can't say it about everything, but one of the things has been communication. Even starting when our kids were babies, we would talk to them like they were humans, not like they were some sort of like little puppy dog or something, and we would always like kind of, of course, developmentally appropriate, but we'd always really like communicate and over communicate with them, you know, and so, yeah, that's one of the things we really like, because they understand how to have a conversation. They understand, you know, the nuances of gosh.
Speaker 2:I, you know, the other day I woke up super grumpy and I like I I get up at five something and I silenced my alarm because it was a particularly bad night of sleep, with my toddler waking me up. And I got up and I was just like grumpy and I just it was so spiky and I needed to take like 10 minutes and I came back out. I go, I'm in a much better mood now. I checked in with myself. I chose to have a different day. What are we going to do today? And you know, for them to see that realness is like it's a big deal, it's a big deal, but we're always modeling right Again, parents.
Speaker 1:you know, to me when you were talking about it, it's like the difference between playing the role of a parent and being a person, being a parent, right, and you know, I always talk with parents about how we are always modeling, so what you did right. There was such a great example of you're always modeling versus telling your child don't do this or don't be that way or right. They're learning from your example and I love that example.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, you know what came up for me when you said that is, I can feel, when I'm playing the role of parent and most oftentimes it's in a public place when I think I'm supposed to, you know, act a certain way, reprimand a certain way, guide a certain way, that the others you know the, the public, whom none of them I know or care about like my own family.
Speaker 2:They, you know the, the public, whom none of them I know or care about like my own family, they, you know my perceived, my perceived, you know opinion of how they think I should handle my children in that moment. And I feel myself doing it, I feel myself going like gosh. I wouldn't ever say that at home, I don't even have an example, but I think that it's like playing pretend, it's like being out and about and pretending like I'm the responsible one who knows more and is older and has had more life experience. And I think for me that shell kind of comes off in our home. It's for me, out in public I have like the roll on the face, like the mask on a little bit more, but at home it kind of all comes down and we're able to be messy and loud and imperfect and you know all the things yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's a tricky one. I mean, sometimes it it's even more complicated in, like a family environment right Versus with strangers, with strangers sometimes you know we do that, you know play that role, and then we think, why did we do that? But then other times, like with families, with larger families for example, sometimes it gets really complicated because people have a view of what we should be doing or the way we should be acting and we want to meet that expectation, but at the same time then we're asking our children to meet expectations that are not appropriate for them. So it gets very confusing.
Speaker 2:It does get confusing. So I think a lot of people would resonate with that, like in relation to their in-laws perhaps, you know, like being around the in-laws and needing to conform to some sort of unspoken rule or standard of conduct that children have or the role that children play in that family system. I think a lot of families still perceive children are to be seen and not heard, or children are to be, you know, at the kid's table, metaphorically or literally. You know that kind of a thing, and I'm not sure if we as a society make a place for children. I think they're still kind of ignored in a lot of ways and not really welcome in our society, which is interesting. And that's just the perception that I get, because I bring my kids with me everywhere and we do all the things together and so they're out and about doing these real life things.
Speaker 2:I'm like, wow, you know, society wasn't really set up for at least not modern day society for parents bringing their kids along with them anywhere, I mean aside from, like, the giant carts at target where you can strap them in and whatever. Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting, it's an interesting thought, I don't know. So you became a coach for parents of autistic children, right, yes, how does your approach differ from like a traditional behavioral therapy approach, which is, I think, what a lot of parents get referred to from a physician or otherwise?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, there are a couple of things I mean. First of all, parenting and therapy are not the same thing. So even though a parent might be referred to a particular type of therapy or approach for education, for education, parenting has a whole other set of responsibilities and you know, relationship that is separate. So that's a really important distinction because too often parents are looking for guidance from therapists or and by therapists I mean, you know, autism therapists or teachers or psychologists but the guidance they're being given isn't about parenting. So that's a really important first distinction.
Speaker 1:And then, secondly, looking at behavior as behavior versus at what's causing the behavior can really lead to a lot of misunderstanding and frustration on both parts, right?
Speaker 1:Because when you see the behavior and you want to control the behavior, unless you take away or address the underlying issue, it's going to be a big frustration. The child's going to continue that behavior, for example, if it's reflecting unmet needs or undeveloped skills, right. So say, for example, your child just really can't developmentally sit at a table for more than 10 minutes. That could be a truth, right? And if you're trying to address the behavior, they're throwing things or they're doing or they're kicking their legs after those 10 minutes and you're trying to address the behavior. The problem really isn't that they're kicking their legs or throwing things. The problem is that they're being asked to sit for too long. So it's not that the behavior doesn't matter. It's not that we never look at the behavior, but too often, unfortunately, the behavioral approaches are looking at the tip of the iceberg the behavior and not what's provoking that, and therefore we're not looking at the needs or the skills that the child needs to be able to grow out from that behavior.
Speaker 2:Right. So the tip of the iceberg is my kid is biting, throwing things, having a tantrum, but the underlying is the need. So the hungry, the thirsty, the tired, the developmentally just doesn't know how the executive functioning isn't there, et cetera, et cetera. And those are the things we're not taking into account as parents. And you know even the behavioral therapist, I'm assuming they're not taking that into account. It's like, from what I understand, it's kind of like training, like a rewards and punishment system. Is that inaccurate? Like, in a nutshell, what it is traditionally that?
Speaker 1:that is a big part of it. And, you know, I think that those people would say, well, it's not that we're not taking those things into account, right? I mean, they're thoughtful, caring people. That's why they go into that type of work. So I'm, you know, I have a lot of compassion. I think many of them are terrific and we need them and we depend on them, right? So it's not about not respecting what they do or anything like that. It's really about just ensuring that you are looking at it from a support perspective instead of a discipline perspective. To me, that's the priority, especially as a parent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and on that note, how do we, as parents, develop this healthy mindset piece that we need as we start to address certain behaviors that our children may be exhibiting and, of course, those root causes underneath as well?
Speaker 1:Well, to me that's the biggest value of the coaching, because, you know, the mindset is the thing that gets in the way, right, because we start to worry oh, we should really not let our child do that. And so it's really looking at what is the belief that is driving the parents behavior to do the thing that's not the most useful, like yelling.
Speaker 1:Yelling is a great example, we all know that we shouldn't yell at our kids, that yelling doesn't help, that yelling is not a good long-term strategy, and yet we do it right. And we do it sometimes because we think like this is what I mean by the belief, and it could be a number of things. It could be I have to control my child. It might be my child's doing that on purpose. My child should know better. My child's going to embarrass me at this family function. These are all different kinds of beliefs that can drive that moment of making that parenting decision and so developing that fortitude of that mindset by allowing these beliefs to come up and looking at them and deciding to make a different choice in the moment. That's really, to me, the biggest benefit of the coaching is to create that space to allow that to happen, to show ourselves grace while we're doing that, because we're human, it's okay. We're going to make some mistakes, that's okay too. It's okay. We're going to make some mistakes, that's okay too.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So my belief under the yelling because I am historically a yeller and my belief, which I've uncovered over the last handful of years, is nobody listens to me or I won't be heard if I'm not loud there was like a thing like a joke, but not a joke in my family.
Speaker 2:That was like you have to be loud to be heard. In our family, my mom has quite a number of siblings and there's cousins, and so I always thought that I have to really like step up on this mountain and go ballistic for anybody to listen to me. And it's interesting to witness that in myself because it's not true, right, to witness that in myself because it's not true, right. And I think over a number of a number, like a lot, this isn't a short-term game, this is a long-term game. You notice yourself yelling, you go to the belief, you envision how you can do it better and then you try better next time, right. And so it's this big process and what's interesting is that, like, maybe all of parenting, maybe all of it is just self-development, like it's just us, like it almost has nothing to do with our children at all, right.
Speaker 1:Well, they help us, right, they help us become who we need to be and we help them as well. Right, it's a, it's an ecosystem, right, yeah, yeah. So I mean, you know, I love your example on the on the yelling front. And you know, sometimes, just because you see the belief and you decide you don't want to continue to believe, it doesn't mean it ever comes up anymore, right? So that's OK too, and it's it's more nuanced, right. And you know another thing sometimes, sometimes it comes up and people say, well, it is true.
Speaker 1:I do need to be loud to be heard. So then you want to ask yourself well, what else could be true, Right? Because maybe what else could be true is yeah, I've trained everybody to wait to listen to me until I'm big and loud.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So maybe that's a different reality and I can retrain them to and by retrain I don't mean it disrespectfully, I mean I can encourage them to learn how to treat me differently. They're doing this because that's what I expect. How?
Speaker 2:can.
Speaker 1:I, you know, change their expectations so they can listen to me when I'm soft. So you know the coaching is. You know it is really a tool for self-development. In that way it is.
Speaker 2:You have me reflecting a lot in what you're saying, even on my own experience. Because, reflecting a lot in what you're saying, even on my own experience, because I'm like, well, is it true, and that is true that in a way I've given the expectation of you don't need to listen until I've asked five times and then yell, and then I go, why does nobody listen until I yell? You know, I've said that before to my husband, and it's true that we are the ones by we I mean the adults in the household we're the ones who get to set the pace in the home. We're the ones who get to set the temperature. Just because one of the children may be having a hard day doesn't mean the entire thermostat of the house gets to change to that child's energy and that mood. We get to set the standard.
Speaker 2:And so it's a really good reminder for me, because being in it as a parent feels it can feel helpless and hopeless, like, oh, nothing changes if nothing changes, and maybe I'm just too cemented in my old beliefs to actually change. But I think just that awareness piece and that reflection piece is such a good first start. So when you work with your clients, how do you guide them through? Or just maybe an example of like somebody becoming aware and like this light bulb moment happening, because I think having a guide, a coach, a mentor is so helpful in showing us our blind spots and really like reflecting back to us certain issues and problems.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll use an example that I think is such a common experience for parents. Um, I had one mom I was working with three children, uh, getting them out the door in the morning. That's the common experience, um, and you know, and she was a little fiery, which I say with love she was fabulous. Um is fabulous, fabulous is fabulous. But things would deteriorate quickly into a whole yelling match, which actually doesn't get things done more quickly. Right, so we have that sense, but, like you said, we feel powerless. We feel helpless in the moment, and that's a tool that we have right there we can raise our voice.
Speaker 1:So part of it was about looking at what she was believing in that moment. Right, so one might be. Well, you know, my child is watching TV when they know they should be getting dressed and they know better, and they should. And again, we're going to look at is that true? What support do they need to do what it is you're asking them to do? Because yelling isn't actually a lot of support, right? So are there other supports? You know, could it be laying out the clothes? Could it be getting up 10 minutes earlier? You know, could it be giving one child focused attention and then the next child focused attention. So it's really about breaking down what's going on. Let's take a look. Let's take a look at different ways we could do it differently, but also the beliefs that are coming up, because if it were just about like do it differently, you could read it in a book and just do it, but we know that's not how it works, right?
Speaker 1:All that parenting, all those parenting articles we read again, they're useful. I'm not no disrespect, I write some of them, but it's more nuanced than that in terms of looking inside. And then the other piece is looking inside. And then also, in the same way that we want to give our children replacement behaviors, right, if they're doing something and we want them to do it differently, we have to help them not only see what they're not supposed to do, but also help them toward what we want them to do.
Speaker 1:So, with parents as well, giving them some ideas, helping them see other ways of you know, like I said, one child focused attention and then another Other things to replace the yelling. So with this parent, we talked about what would happen if you had a dance party in the morning. Right, like 10 minutes, get the energy up, you get the happiness up and everybody dances their breakfast dishes to the sink right, they dance to whatever. And she said she couldn't believe it, like the change was so dramatic. And the other thing you mentioned this and I loved that you, I wanted to highlight it. Um, and the other thing you mentioned this and I loved that you, I wanted to highlight it um, this idea of when you're in it, it's really hard. So even just carving out the time to step back, take a look at what's happening at a you know, when you're not in it, and making a different choice when you're not in it is so helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. So it's also about, you know, working with clients at a time when they can do that self-reflection. It's carving out that space for them to do that as well.
Speaker 2:So what I'm hearing you say is all the books and the podcasts and the audio books and the articles that we're reading, we're not necessarily integrating, and there has to be some time to look at and be really honest about our reactions, our days, our logistics, that we have set up, the systems we have set up our schedules, et cetera. We really need to take some time to reflect on the things that are working and the things that aren't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's so valuable, and I think it's also valuable to ask the question what can I do differently? Right, because I have power over me, and sometimes, as parents, what we look to do is try to exert power over the situation, and that's where the yelling comes in, as the example. But so many other unhelpful things too, like you know, trying to get your children to do homework and making them sit down and making them pay attention at a time when they might actually not be really ready to do that. So, looking at what can, how can I look at this differently to set everybody up for success?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were running a few minutes late. My big kids and I to. I was dropping them off at their co-op the other day and I was kind of frazzled and I felt myself wound up and I felt myself kind of like going crazy with all these thoughts of the things that I had to do and the checklist and getting them dropped off and the checklist and you know, getting them dropped off in the schedule and what time will I get home and what time will I start this meeting and that and the email and all the things. So I felt myself doing that and I felt that I was frazzled and the day was going frazzled and they were starting to get really frustrated too. So we got in the car and I said like we're, you know, I, I turned on the map and one of my children was standing outside of the window and like she's like roll the window down. So I'm like rolling the window down, I'm like I can see her just like three inches from the car. I'm like get out of the car and she, you know she's saying like she's trying to have a conversation with me outside of the car and I'm just like turning red, like feel myself about to lose it.
Speaker 2:So finally she like, gets in the car and she shoves past her other sister, like in the captain's chair, and some finger got hurt in the process of this through shoving and everybody being frazzled. And I said we're already three minutes late and if we stand here any longer we're going to be five minutes late and seven minutes late. And I'm saying this, I'm hearing myself say it, and going like this isn't what you want to do. So that awareness piece is there. And so the finger gets hurt and it's like immediate screaming for my seven-year-old. And I stopped because I could feel myself doing this. It wasn't, I was conscious of it. I stopped. I got out of the car, I walked around, took some breaths before I opened the door. I took her finger and I said your finger got hurt. She's like, yeah, my finger got hurt. And so I held her hand in my hands and I said, oh, okay. And then I kissed the hand. I, you know, gave her some love, held her forehead.
Speaker 2:She immediately, pretty soon, calmed down I mean, it only took 20 seconds and I said, with the door open, I could see both of them. I go, I'm calm now. We're going to be three minutes late, no big deal. I'm going to get back in the car. And which audio book do you guys want to listen to? They're like okay, and our entire morning changed and I saw myself play out how it could have gone. I could have continued to like volcano erupt, my frustrations all over them, drop them off at school. Then there's like the guilt trip on top of the thing. On top of the thing, but just that simple awareness and that like, for me it's like that calm, it's breathing, coming back to grounded presence. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there's nothing simple about what you did. That was really. That whole story is so brilliant. There's so many layers of you know thoughtful I don't know really expert execution there.
Speaker 2:Thank you. This is nine years in the making, yeah, well well done.
Speaker 1:So I also want to make clear so I I have a million of those stories too. I mean, part of why I'm here now and why I want to help people who are, you know, coming along up behind me, is because I made so many mistakes and I engaged in so much trial and error and I my hope is to help people get there faster, right, so to to avoid some of that trial and error. So you know, I just wanted to make that clear because you know it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, but you know, the kids are 25 and 27. I have a lot, of a lot of stories behind me, I bet, yeah, but I wanted to also highlight one thing that you taught, you know what you did in that story that was so brilliant that I just want to highlight for any listeners which is you took that moment and you validated your daughter's feelings and experience and that if parents just did that one thing alone in those moments, it changes so much, right.
Speaker 1:And so, in addition to you know, yeah, and so, in addition to you know, stopping, you know taking a breath, being calm, not, you know, not escalating. Those things are all amazing and really important and though that validation piece that's what I'm saying it's so expertly done because it just does it, you know you can calm yourself first and that does bring down the temperature for everyone. But in addition, they feel heard, they feel understood, they feel loved, reset and move on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm crying because because I it's what I want for my children and all the children is to be validated and just know that their experience is their experience. It's really one thing I'm seeking to do, and I think I have a theory. Maybe when my kids are 25 and 27, I'll decide if this theory worked or not, but I really think that if we honor who they are, what they feel, what they think their choices the good ones and the bad choices if we're honoring all of those things, I really think that it's a tool for them to discover the trueness of themselves and to really grow into who they're meant to be. And so that's my hope and my prayer for my children and all the children is, through that validation and acknowledging what's going on for them, that they'll be able to really walk through life with some self-assurance.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and here's why I think you're 100% right. You know, if we look at just that validation step, you know, setting to one side all the rest of it of becoming who they are, but what you're helping your child do in that moment is they are learning self-control, right, which is what we want for them, that we want them to create, to develop self-control independently, right? Whereas if we are trying to control them, if we are trying to make them stop crying or just get them to do whatever, then we're exerting that. That's not self-control and that's why, like, that's such an important piece and then, on top of it, this whole idea of honoring exactly who they are and allowing them to be the best version of themselves. I mean, they are going to become themselves, so we may as well honor the best version of themselves, right? We can't force them into some other path. I mean, we can and we do sometimes. But you know, I think our best chance of having that happy, thriving, you know, successful, whatever we make that mean for ourselves person is to honor those things.
Speaker 2:For sure, I love that and I love this conversation.
Speaker 1:For sure I love that and I love this conversation as we start to wrap up. Is there something that I didn't ask you, that you would love to share? And then I there is so much that parents can learn from the books and the articles and I, again, I don't. I want to be careful not to disparage any input. It's all very valuable but, uh, you know, taking that time for yourself, getting the support and help of a coach or other professional um is you're worth it and your children are worth it, and your family're worth it, and your children are worth it and your family is worth it, and it's probably the most important job you'll ever do. So, you know, getting support for that job, you know I think it's extremely valuable.
Speaker 2:I agree 100%. And on that note, where can we find you and follow your work?
Speaker 1:My website is autismparentsolutionscom Great. If you think you're interested in jumping into coaching, you can reach out to book a call with me. It's autismparentsolutionscom. Forward slash apply Great, and we can talk about whether it's a good fit for you and whether it's something that you really want to pursue. There are a lot of resources on my website. There's a free training there that you might be interested in watching. That's the best place.
Speaker 2:Amazing. We will link all that up in the show notes so you can click right below to book a call with Andrea and take a look at her website for more info. The work you're doing in the world is amazing. I appreciate you and who you are and showing up and providing this value to us and to everybody out there it's it's such important work. I really do believe that, so thank you. Thank you, yeah. So my first question of the last questions I have for you is what's bringing you joy today?
Speaker 1:Well, what's bringing me joy? This conversation, honestly, is bringing me joy. I really do love to talk about these things because I don't think we have enough places where we can talk about these things. We talk about the busy work of parenting. There's a lot of conversation about how to get the meals prepped and how to get them out to school, and all of those things and the underlying psychological parts and philosophical parts are so important to really set time aside to consider. So this is bringing me joy today.
Speaker 2:Oh, me too so much, and something I found as a side note which many listeners have heard me say before out there. But when my daughter was first born I was going to different mommy and me groups and you know people would be talking about the diapers and the stroller and the breastfeeding and the all like the external things, and I was like can't we just talk about how damn hard this is? Like I really wanted to like get to the heart and soul of like this journey and so I agree.
Speaker 1:Yes, being versus the doing right. It's coming full circle back to the beginning of our conversation.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it. Um, so what? Back to the beginning of our conversation. Yes, I love it, so what, if anything?
Speaker 1:are you reading right now? I am often reading books about parenting and autism and neurodivergence, and I'm reading a book right now called Autism and Heals. It's about how women are diagnosed differently and the signs are different and the masking is different and about why a lot of women now are realizing in adulthood that they actually are autistic and what that looks like and what that feels like.
Speaker 2:That sounds fascinating. I'm going to put that on my list. I'm also very interested in neurodivergence and all the things that we're seeing in our society now that are a little bit different from when I was growing up, and so, yeah, interesting, okay, and then the last question I have for you is who or what has taught you the most?
Speaker 1:Clearly my children have taught me the most. You know, people always say things like, oh, they're my greatest teachers and I? You know I hear that, but I don't think I was ready to experience it as profoundly as it actually happened. And wow, what an opportunity for me to grow into the best version of me. That was yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for taking the opportunity to do so and for paving this road of the path less traveled, because we're back here following you, andrea. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks so much.