Join on this exploration into the realm of open communication and its impactful role in our lives with long-time educator and author, Elizabeth Bennett! Elizabeth's enlightening insights on the dynamics of family, peer group, and school communication are enhanced by her profound understanding of the importance of relationships as a preventive strategy against youth suicide.
Learn More about Elizabeth and Her Books here
❤️🔥The Rising Wild Hearts Membership❤️🔥
If you feel inspired please consider sharing this episode with a friend, writing a 5⭐️ review or becoming a Raising Wild Hearts Member here!
Join on this exploration into the realm of open communication and its impactful role in our lives with long-time educator and author, Elizabeth Bennett! Elizabeth's enlightening insights on the dynamics of family, peer group, and school communication are enhanced by her profound understanding of the importance of relationships as a preventive strategy against youth suicide.
Learn More about Elizabeth and Her Books here
❤️🔥The Rising Wild Hearts Membership❤️🔥
If you feel inspired please consider sharing this episode with a friend, writing a 5⭐️ review or becoming a Raising Wild Hearts Member here!
when you're taking that time to be with them and you're just enjoying them for who they are, with their behavior, with their characteristics, with good, bad and ugly, whatever that looks like, that establishes a really strong foundation for you to have those much more difficult conversations when they get to be older.
Speaker 2:Welcome, revolutionary Mama, to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. I'm Ryan Watkin, educator, mom of three, revel at heart and passionate soul, on a mission to empower and inspire you.
Speaker 2:Here we'll explore psychology, spirituality, parenthood and the intersection where they all come together. We'll discover how challenges can be fertile soil for growth and that even in the messy middle of motherhood, we can find magic in the mundane. Join me on my own personal journey as I talk to experts and share resources on education, creativity, self-care, family, culture and more. I believe we can change the world by starting at home in our own minds and hearts, and that when we do, we'll be passing down the most important legacy there is healing, and so it is. Welcome back to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast, lovebugs. Today I'm sitting down with Elizabeth Bennett, and she is just a gem and she's been in education for a lot of years I think it's like 35 plus and she brings just a varied and beautiful perspective to the podcast. Today I'm really excited to share her insights with you and her wisdom. She's written a book called Courageous Conversations, so we end up talking a lot about communication within families, communication within peer groups and then also communication in schools. I love getting educators perspectives because education, as you know, is one of my core values. So I ask her, of course, the question that I love to ask all my educators out there, and that's if you had a magic wand, what would you change about our school systems? And Elizabeth is in Canada, so her perspective is a teeny bit varied than it is in the US, but still very similar. Like North America. Things are running similar there as they are here from what I understand. So, yeah, she also.
Speaker 2:We speak about how suicide is the second leading cause of death for our youth in the US. Like, just let that sink in. I know that's maybe hard to hear, I know it is for me to even, you know, think about the weight of that. It's so heavy when you really think about it. It's so heartbreaking. It can be depressing if we let it be right. And this conversation, we really talk about the prevention of that right, and that's relationship, relationship is the prevention. And there are, you know, very little things, very few things that we have true, true control of in our lives other than ourselves and how we show up for the people that we love. So that's why I loved this conversation so much is because we talk a lot about that.
Speaker 2:So Elizabeth Bennett is an award-winning principal with 35 plus years in education, coaching and administration. Her journey from surviving domestic violence to sparking courageous conversations inspires. She's an avid runner and a world traveler and she relishes life's joys, which we can you guys, will totally be able to tell from this conversation. Her mission is to turn adversity into love-filled spaces and she's just so passionate. She's like me, a passionate soul on a mission. She said at one point in the conversation you can tell I'm really passionate, right, you know, she kind of went on this beautiful, just this beautiful speech, let's say I it's not even a rant, because I think that has a negative connotation but this beautiful monologue on you know her thoughts and her feelings and her beliefs on how we can make this world a better place. And really, spoiler alert it starts with human connection and ends with human connection.
Speaker 2:So there you have it, believe it or not, I don't have a book to share with you right now. I can throw out an oldie, but a goodie which I've mentioned 10 plus times on this podcast probably hold on to your kids by Dr Gabor Monti. That one is always on my nightstand. I'm not always reading it, but it's always sitting there for me when I'm ready to take a look, and I think that book actually relates a lot to the conversation we're having today. And then, of course Elizabeth's book, and then she mentions some really great books at the end of the conversation too.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of switching out my three questions that I ask everybody at the end and I'm adding in one. So you'll hear me kind of fumble the last few episodes because I'm trying to figure out how to add it in there. So I promise that'll become a little more graceful as I go on. I always ask people what they're reading, because I just love book recommendations and I need more book recommendations in my life. And she named some really good ones. And then I ask people what's bringing them joy today, and then who are what they've learned the most from?
Speaker 2:And also I'm adding in the question if you could teach a class to elementary aged kids, what would it be about? And I'm getting some really cool and varied answers and I love it because I'm on the verge of teaching my own class to a group of girls on leadership and I'm really, really excited. And that's locally. If you do happen to live in Palm Beach County, reach out to me, hello at raisingwildheartspodcastcom and I can give you the information on that. I'll likely have another one coming up in the spring, but so, yeah, that's kind of in the works, behind the scenes, as things unfold with that. I will certainly share it with you guys.
Speaker 2:I'm really excited. It's something that God, if you will, just kind of threw in my lap and the idea came to me and it's been in the works since 2018, when I was creating a class called Girls Are Leaders for tweens and teens. So this has been a long time coming. I'm bringing all of my education experience, all of my research, all of my passion, all of my love as a mother and educator to this class, and I'm really excited to tell you guys how it plays out and what I learned from these amazing, amazing human beings, these girls who are in grades first through fourth, who I'm gonna be teaching all about heart centered leadership. So yay for that and yay for today's conversation. I hope you guys truly enjoy it. I know I did. I will talk to you guys soon ["I Will Talk to you Soon"].
Speaker 2:Elizabeth, welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks so much, Ryan.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you're here. It's great to be here today. Thank you, it's great to be chatting with you. I love your book in the background and I love that we got to have a little conversation before the conversation. That's always fun and I'm like wait a minute, we gotta record because I feel like we're getting into the juicy stuff. So I'm really excited. You recently wrote a book. You're very a long-term educator, now retired, right? Yes, I love it. It just wasn't finished.
Speaker 1:And I just wanted to be able to reach families, and rather than only one at a time, which is okay too, but I just want to get that message out, because we're in a place where it's not a good one. Bullying is rent and mental health concerns are through the roof. Social isolation as wonderful as this is for gathering information and having your cell phone handy, it's also an increased space of social isolation. And now we know in North America, suicide is the second cause of death of our youth, and this is on our watch, like we're here, so we need to be able to do something about it.
Speaker 2:Right. It's heartbreaking when we can talk about that and I think that we need to get to that heartbreak to change it, right. So what is? Let's start with what is bullying, Because it's a word that gets thrown around a lot in all grade levels, so let's define it so we can break it down from there.
Speaker 1:Well, really, I mean, it's about being constantly teased, or it's purposeful usually and it's hurtful and it really is a space where people can't seem to get away from it, and it's targeted usually, which is, I mean, for people to think that that's okay. It's not, and it also happens in our workspace, and I'm gonna talk about that a little later.
Speaker 2:Right. So something that I've been thinking lately I've heard the phrase kids are mean, like thrown around throughout the years, like especially when it comes to those like middle school years and recently I've been delving into kids aren't actually mean, kids are really hurt and they're hurting others. The whole hurt people, hurt people thing. Right, yeah, right. So where does? Where's the antidote? I'm assuming that it starts at home, like what's the combination of the antidote at home and school and all of it?
Speaker 1:Well, let me back up, because that's quite a complex piece that we're talking about here. The thing that happens typically is parents will come in and say my kid's being bullied and you're not doing anything about it, and then they go on Facebook and they rant out there someplace where there's no control, and then that just fires it up. Here's what I know to be true through my years of education and experience. There are situations that occur in a variety of locations. So and I usually help parents understand that it has to do with their background as well how they were raised, what was going on in their life, the experiences that they've had and how they show up. So how they show up when they speak, how they show up when they listen and when they see and they hear things. And our kids have those similar kinds of filters. So if there are situations, if there's trauma in the household, if there's stuff going on where they are feeling like they don't have any control, they don't have a voice, they don't feel like they have purpose and all they do is yell and scream and so on at home, that's painful for them and they don't know how to deal with it. And most of us as adults, although we're older and we're a little more experienced, we hold on to that stuff too, and so typically what will happen is trying to get rid of it. We don't do the appropriate things and kids have less skills and less strategies and less knowledge about it and more about the piece that's going on. That's heavy for them, you know. They're worried about whether they get along with kids, whether they have friends. Are they wearing the right shoes or the right clothes or the hair color of the moment Is that the right one? Do they fit in? Are they having any fun at all in their life? And so when they're trying to get rid of that pain, they don't care how they do it, they just shoot it out on someone else. But here's the piece that's.
Speaker 1:The disconnect with homes and with school is that we don't teach bullying. We're teaching morals and ethics and values and academics and how to get along with people and trying to do really good things. But we have the playground, literally and figuratively. We have the playground where they can practice, because they know we're not there and the more skillful they are at being able to hide it. Or kids sometimes are being bullied and it's a little whisper as they're going into a classroom and they're really very skillful at it, and sometimes it's bullying where there is physicality and sometimes there's bullying where it's words. And now we have this whole new space with our cell phones where you can send what we imagine are anonymous messages and so on, and there doesn't appear to be an escape from it. And that's part of the challenge for the person who's being attacked or being bullied or being teased in the space of okay, how do we, how do we rid ourselves from this? How do we get away from it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what age do you think? Like this is great and there's so much to unpack, but I'm curious what age do you think kids, if at all, should be allowed to have cell phones?
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that's a whole other topic in the world. It is, yeah. And now what I did in one of the schools that I was in, we were having a particular issue with it, and so what I did was I created a survey and I sent, I gave it to the teachers in the classrooms and I sent it home to parents and I also gave it to the teachers and support staff for their point of view. And I found that and I started with grade three, so around grade three students, there wasn't a whole lot of stuff going on with cell phones. The occasional child had them, had one, and it was really just for giving their parents an idea of, you know, when they're leaving school, particularly for kids who walked home and there weren't many in this particular school, which was interesting, but that was really there just as safety kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Grade four was about the same grade five, so those kids are about 12 at that point, 11 or 12. That's when I started to see a little bit more of them having them. However, they were still relatively responsible in their actions, their need to have it when the teacher said just put it away, we're not using it today, because sometimes teachers will use the cell phones in classroom for, you know, different kinds of activities. That might be a Jeopardy game or it might be you know, some other kind of. You know I'll put a question and you tell me, and they do polling, and so they learn skills within the use of the cell phone. So that still worked pretty well in grade five and six, and then it was a different story when it got to junior high. So, going back to answering your question, I think it really has to be about the responsibility of the parent to have some control over that and to really be mindful, and that that's worthy of a courageous conversation. To say you know, this is how you need to treat this piece of equipment. I pay the bill, I can take it away, but let me trust you with it to do the appropriate and the correct things and treat it well and be responsible. And what we talk about in school is being digitally responsible citizens.
Speaker 1:Okay, but then what ended up happening was I listened and the questions that I asked were you know, do you find that it's being misused in your classrooms? Or and I have a funny story that goes along with it you know, is it being used correctly in your classrooms. You know, when the teacher asks you to put it away, do you do that? You know, do you notice if, if kids are using them and it's not responsible, and they're, you know, doing all kinds of things. So I was able to get some of those answers as well. The students shared with me their fear about, you know, people getting on their cell phones and and not being responsible, or not even their friends, but people that they don't even know. And how do they know whether they're the same age, because there's enough of that information out there about predators. And so some of them really said like I'm afraid and, and you know, my friend is being bullied and what do I do about it? And so on. So we were able to address some of those things at the same time.
Speaker 1:But when I got to the students in grade eight and nine eight was the big deal there was one class in grade eight that was just. You know, these are our rights and responsibilities and we should be able to keep this, and what I shared with them was some of the information that other students had shared, as well as telling them that when we were, from time to time, teachers would bring a cell phone down to the office because it was being misused in the classroom and so on. So I'd have a whole bunch of these things on my desk as I'm doing work and they're worrying and they're buzzing in there and they're ringing and I would pick them up and sometimes I would be shocked by the whole idea that it would be apparent calling during the day and then in other cases it would be another student in that class. So I would simply go to the class, collect their cell phone and say you can pick it up at the end of the day. But the so the piece about it was that they needed to recognize too that they that it's important for them to be serious in class, to focus on what's going on and to be responsible, and that's a place that I often encourage parents to say.
Speaker 1:So another situation that occurred was a parent came to see me and said that she was concerned about her child because she felt that her child's best friend was bullying her and it was happening on the cell phone and so on in class.
Speaker 1:And I was confused about it because I always saw them together and so had conversation with the girls and wanted to find out what was going on and I said to the parent have you had the opportunity to check her cell phone to see what kind of conversation is going back and forth and so on? And she said oh no, I don't do that because I'm giving my child responsibility and I'm giving them independence and so on. And I'm shaking my head and I'm being respectful at that moment because I'm thinking why aren't you doing that? And so I just said, in a polite kind of way, you might consider checking her cell phone. Anyway, the parent comes in to see me a week later and with her tail between her legs and the ears down a bit, and she said I can't believe it. She said it was really my daughter who was doing the bullying. So it really is about having those conversations and finding out really what's going on with your kids.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think those conversations. Well, my kids are young, they're 1, 6, and 8. And so the conversations, the courageous ones, start, even when they're little for me?
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, and that's where they should start Right.
Speaker 2:It's a foundational piece for me, and so I feel like these years, in a sense, are practicing for the teen and teen years. So what do you think is going on once they hit that middle school age? Is it the hormones? Is it the social interactions? Is it the pushing the parents away and the parents are saying, ok, the kids are pushing me away. I guess they should be away. Like I think it's counterintuitive, but like I think as parents we need to keep them a little bit closer when they're pushing away. They need us more at that time, more courageous conversations. So what do you think, from an educator's perspective, is going on in middle school? Maybe it's the rigor of school, it's the social interactions, all of it combined. What is it that makes them not be as responsible or feel like they're entitled to use these cell phones and not want to be respectfully engaging with the adults in their lives about what's going on?
Speaker 1:It's a little bit of all of that and they're trying to work through it because there are so many, so many feelings, so many emotions there. They have raging hormones. At that point they have that big time thing where they feel like they're in charge and they don't need their parents because, after all, their parents don't know anything anyway, and and it's a place where they're trying to establish their autonomy and they're not very good at it Because they, they have so many things like I mentioned before about, you know, worrying about Things that are going on in class. Are they doing well enough? Are they, you know? Do they have friends? What's happening with their best friend? What's happening on the internet?
Speaker 1:They're, you know, they're maybe not skinny or tall, or or, you know, they they don't fit into what they imagine that virtual perfect world will provide them, and so and they want more likes and they want to.
Speaker 1:So they're so wrapped up with all of those things, and for you and I, some of the worries that they have are really small, but for them they are enormous, and so you pile one on top of the other. Then they can't see beyond that, and so then they're trapped in that space by themselves when they don't want to share because that would make them look bad. Or they don't want to share because they don't know how to speak about it, because they can't Identify what's going on in their body. They just know that it's not right and and in some cases that's what that's what promotes things like cutting and, you know, doing drugs and getting involved with the wrong characters or people that aren't you know doing making the best choices, and Then that leads them to that dark place where they can't see, they don't see that there's a possibility, and so they choose a. They choose a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and that's, in the case of eventual suicide, right.
Speaker 1:And so if we start having those conversations when kids are really young, yeah, and and at their level and talking about you, know good choices and how does it feel and please come and see me if there's a question or a concern or something that's going on because the more they share when they're younger and those little tiny problems and they feel that they can trust you and that there's a space where you're going to listen and not necessarily give them all the answers, but simply be there and you can also ask what your role should be in the conversation as you're progressing with each of your kids and so in that space, it allows them to have your attention personally, because those are what I talk about with the five strategies of dedicated listening.
Speaker 1:When you're taking that time to be with them and You're just enjoying them for who they are, with their behavior, with their characteristics, with good, bad and ugly, whatever that looks like, that is a really strong foundation For you to have those much more difficult Conversations when they get to be older and then that gives them as well your modeling, because you're modeling along the way so that there, although they might not notice right to begin with in terms of how it's helping them, but they certainly notice what you're saying and what you're doing and how you're responding.
Speaker 1:So then it gives them those the little bits of the beginning, of those tools To set the foundation for where they're moving on to once they're out of your home. Right, even as they're growing, you get into the, the older teenager places, then that gives them a more reasonable and responsible Interaction with their peers, with you and your home and with other people in their world.
Speaker 2:Right. All they want to be is seen and understood.
Speaker 2:You know that that's all we want, you as humans, not even kids. The adults want that too. We just want to be seen and listened to and understood. And if we're talking to our spouse or friend and they're checking their phone and they're kind of half-assing it, for lack of a better term we know that and our kids know that when we're not showing up for them, fully right, absolutely yeah. I think a lot of it comes down to that presence. Okay, so I want to get into the nitty-gritty of the education system. If we could for a minute. Like okay, you could. My favorite question for educators is if you had a magic wand, what would you do to change the education system? What are some of the things you would put into place?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I would certainly.
Speaker 1:Although the the subject matter that we teach is Important and it gives a good foundation for kids, there are many elements that I would Add in, and one of them would be, you know, character education, having these courageous conversations a little bit more with financial literacy as well, so that they have an opportunity to learn and grow and to Apply the skills and they're learning when they're younger into those places and spaces when they when they achieve Maturity or when they leave school.
Speaker 1:So, and I'm talking about things as as simple as Helping them to learn about skills that they can use as an entrepreneur, because you know, if you have your six-year-old on the street selling lemonade or stickers or creating fancy posters, then that's a place in space that you should Encourage them to pursue and not to diminish that and say, oh well, that was just that day and so on, but really to see the impact, because they're giving of their time, they're providing a service, they're making some money. So there are all those elements that are teachable moments and I just that's, that's what I think is really important about teachable moments.
Speaker 1:Yeah we can learn from every interaction, everything that we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I Love that, and I think that's where the importance of a really great teacher comes in and a teacher who's there for the passion and for the kids.
Speaker 2:Because you know, we all remember those educators for us who, you know, lifted us up or told us we were good at something or, you know, championed us. So I think that's so important day-to-day, just to have that teacher who Actually sees their students, who wants to be there, who's super passionate about it. And you know that can be hard because not every Educator is in place for the right reason, so to speak. And not only that, it's a hard. I mean God bless our teachers. Like it's not easy, you know, to have 25, 18 to 25 kids, all Individuals, all different, all unique needs. I mean I've got three children of my own and I can't imagine having 20 more, having to meet all their needs.
Speaker 2:You know, it's, it's, it's a lot. We choose to home educate. We do have a few different co-ops that we're, you know, a part of. So we do have a lot of different support. But Educating one child is a, an expense, you know, a spiritual pursuit, a physical pursuit, just being there with them. It takes a ton of observation. There's so much involved with just one child and we're talking about Millions of kids and many of whom are, you know, unfortunately, just falling through the cracks or Committing suicide. You know, at the very, very worst case scenario and it's it's heartbreaking to think of you know.
Speaker 1:It sure is, and I think you know you've addressed several things that that I like to speak about when I meet with teachers and as well when I meet with parents, to understand them the social, emotional piece, and that's a growing need. And you know, when we have such diversity in classrooms, that takes a little bit of time to be able to negotiate through that, because you know teachers have and like, if we're looking at elementary teachers as an example, you know they have six or eight subjects and a day that they're trying to get through and they're, you know, trying to make it in the best interest of kids to adapt and to find the best skills and so on. And we're looking at emotional intelligence and we're looking at, you know, all kinds of things. So it really is about navigating through the world and the earlier that we can have our kids understand themselves too, because that's really part of it, when they get connected to who they are and their self-esteem and knowing that, yes, they're capable of doing things. But they need to hear that and they need to be part of being lifted up, and whether it's with their parents or grandparents, because grandparents can do that really well, right, and they do that and they feed them with lots of fun things and then they send them home Because they've already had their time at it. They've already had you and me and everybody else.
Speaker 1:But the space of having teachers feel worthy as well, because that's also a missing piece right now in the education system.
Speaker 1:I don't care what country it is, because I've been studying it a lot.
Speaker 1:Looking at you know how countries exist and what makes some better than others, and so on, and I'm not necessarily only focusing on the academics, because we know that comes along with it, but what I am looking at is how is it that we're teaching and how is it that we're praising and not in a oh, here I'll give you a mug because you're the teacher of the month but really their social, emotional space too. Because if we don't do that and we don't help each other out in each level of learning and growing, then that's where things start to fall apart. Because if I'm not acknowledged for what I do and if I don't feel valued in being in collaboration, with working with other people in cooperation the very things that we teach our children we need to be able to lift those and be respectful and responsible at that level as well, because, interestingly enough, we're the ones that we're, the teachers and principals and parents together, are the ones that help lift every other profession Right, right, and yet we're not acknowledged for that.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, I've never thought about it like that. Yeah, you know, I resonate so deeply with what you're saying from a motherhood lens. When I became a mother, I chose to quit my career and stay home full time with my first daughter, and that was, you know, eight plus years ago, and I had this lacking sense of worth, because in culture, what's worthy is not caretaking, what's worthy is not necessarily teaching. I mean, if you want to look at the salaries, I mean if you want to base it on the dollars, you can base it on the dollars, but I think that has a lot to do with it. But also, just like you said, simple acknowledgement of a job well done, but not just giving a mug, like I.
Speaker 2:You know, I like Alfie Cohn and he has this article called five reasons not to say good job, and we've been, you know, kind of digging into his work here at our house and I think that so relates to the teacher. You don't just say, hey, good job, you say wow, I see how present you are with your kids and how much you cared for little Susie and brought her back up to this level, and how, you know, johnny was struggling with behavioral issues and you really took him under your wing. You know, like very specific, concrete things, you know, and maybe the system's too big to do that, but I think like it starts on such an individual level, such like a human to human level.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's part of what I'm doing, because I'm writing another book at the moment called courageous conversations in the workplace.
Speaker 2:Oh cool.
Speaker 1:Because we know that bullying is terrible there. You know, more than 50% of the people who are in a job at the moment don't want to be there Because, again, they're not valued, they're not listened to, they're not respected. And yet we continue to want to thrive, for, you know, the bigger, the more profit. Except, what we need to do is we need to value the people that are creating the profit for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we're not 50% of people More than 50%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't want to be in their jobs.
Speaker 1:No, because they hate them.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's like I can logically, it's a staggering statistic. It's a giant, I mean it's giant, I just and heartbreaking still. You know like it's like. Then we have a bunch of unhappy half of the people walking around unhappy. Then we wonder where the bullying comes from in our schools and where the heart. That's right, it's all kind of like this trickle down effect.
Speaker 1:But people don't. People don't recognize the impact that that has, and you've just mentioned some of those things and they don't realize that there's going to be a lot of gap. If things aren't going well at work, even as a manager or even as the CEO, if they don't feel like they have any personal control, if they don't feel like things are working out well for them, are trying their best not to bring them to work and at the same time, when they're at work, they're trying not to bring them home. But you can't separate yourself. You have those feelings, you have those emotions, you have that strife that's going on and what ends up happening is it has an impact on your sociability with other people or even with your family, and so that's part of when you mentioned before. You know it might be monumental, but it if we could start with one conversation at a time right and being able to be present with one person and feeling like that you have a connection with that one person, right, then that's what flourishes out, as opposed to feeling like the world is on you.
Speaker 1:And then people, as well as adults. You know they. They get into drugs and alcohol and, and you know inappropriate behavior and so on, and so, if we stop for a moment and take a breath, and really seriously, because that's one of the things that I encourage people to do when they're having conversation is to take a breath and step away, not necessarily physically, but just in their space, so that they're less likely to say something they can't take back, that they're less likely to blow up. But rather, hey, do I need to be? How do I need to be presenting myself at the moment? How do I need to respond to whatever this situation is?
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I think nonviolent communication could be something that's taught in schools and in the workplaces. I've been practicing it even with my kids, my oldest daughter, right, you know it's like I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a very like back and forth listening, mirroring. So what I'm hearing you say is is there more?
Speaker 2:you know and I love these little, very small, little sentences that we can add- in of stopping, like if my child is on a rant, and I just stop and I go is there more? Like the first time I did it, she was like, well, yeah, there's more. And I'm going to tell you and I'm like, okay, I'm listening, I'm here, you know, is there more? Is there more? Is there more? And let the person talk right. We so are obsessed with getting our point of view out and being right and being proud and, you know, wanting to prove a point, and we have these emotions that we haven't let ourselves feel and they're coming out in this conversation because we're feeling overwhelmed and triggered, you know, and so rightfully so. We weren't taught, you know. So I think it comes with practice. I love your choice of words. I love the word courageous. Can we talk about that word and choosing that word for both of your books? Sure.
Speaker 1:And it really is about stepping out of your comfort zone. That's why it's courageous, because you're stepping out of a space that just feels okay for you and being vulnerable at the same time, because you know some of the things that you just mentioned about having that conversation with your own child. Yes, tell me more, help me understand what's going on for you, because you know what, as educators and as parents and you know other people in the world we're quick to have solution. So we're not even finished listening to what you've said, because we're really not even listening. We're sort of, you know, we picked a word or two. Oh, I could tell you, oh, I have a solution for that, right, and it's not a bad thing. But what it does is it prevents the conversation from continuing and it prevents the space of trust, because you're really not listening. You're ready to give your six solutions, and in some cases it's done unintentionally, because you, as a parent, want to solve the problem for your child. You don't want them to hurt, you don't want them to feel sad or lonely, and so you're looking for a solution that's going to help them. But what we need to do is allow that space so that we really understand what's going on over there with them.
Speaker 1:Yes, tell me more. Is there more? Help me understand what's going on when you said this and say their words so that then clearly they know that you're listening to them, and not so much as a psychologist piece or a therapist. But so when you said this, like I don't understand, what does it mean for you? So that I understand, because I have what I think it means.
Speaker 1:But I want to know what's going on for you, and I talk when I discuss those with parents, I talk about them being sentence expanders, because we're trying to be investigators, we put on our detective hat and we want to find out more about what's going on. You know it could be something like you know, I haven't noticed lately that your friend hasn't been coming by. So what's going on with that? Is there a particular issue? And you know what? We don't always have time to decide on whether the question is an open question or a close, so don't be worried so much about that. Just ask them. Just ask them and say, hey, I've noticed that you know when you came in this morning or when you came in after school, you know you threw your backpack down and you didn't even say hello and I didn't get a chance to you know, so tell me what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kindness and curiosity, that's what it.
Speaker 1:Well, because it beats the other place. So I give this story about, you know, a student being suspended from school, and so they're at home and the parent comes home at the end of the day and I won't I won't tell you the big part, I'll just get to the get to the point. Here and the you know, the kid is lying on the couch with a pillow over their head and they've had a frenzy day. It started because they got up late and the day progresses and the parent has has, or hurt, troubles during the day and the kid obviously is now suspended because of bullying and fighting and so on. So the parent has two choices in that question, or two questions to ask.
Speaker 1:One is what the hell did you do this time? Or what happened today? Tell me a little bit more about it. I get that the day was frenzied. What happened? Yeah, same parent, same child, two different types of questions. Yep, which one do you think you might get a little bit more respect for? Get more response with? Right, the one that they've heard, because it's the typical response about you know, I told you not to do that. How many times do we have to talk about that? What the hell were you thinking Right or okay, I get it Like I get that. You know we're all responsible in this day because we got up late. There was stuff going on. How about if we have some conversation about doing things differently, so that you're inviting your child into the conversation, you're not pushing them away?
Speaker 2:Yep. Imagine if we all talk to each other like this, like.
Speaker 2:Imagine if politicians you know, communicated like this educators, kids, families I mean we wouldn't have war Like I mean we wouldn't have any issues if we always like communicated like this. It's just it's the solution, it's, and it's so flourishing for our relationships. You know, every time I have these conversations I think about you know little me, and how I would have loved to, you know, have a respectful conversation with an adult in my life, and there were some of those and there were some of them. What the hell did you do this time too? And you know, I think that it lands differently when it's open-ended and curious. And I think as adults we have a responsibility to take our stress and our trauma and our worries and our big adult problems out of our own heads, to be able to be fully present for the kids in our lives.
Speaker 1:Well, and part of that is with a courageous conversation, because, depending on how old or young your child is, you sometimes need to share some of that and not simply just diminish them by saying, oh, this doesn't concern you, honey. Yeah, it does, because that child is in your home and they see the arguments that you have or the frustration or the stuff that's happening at work or so on. They might not be saying anything, but they're there and they're seeing this in action and when they don't know how to deal with their own emotions, because they're busy wanting to save you from yours, and in some cases that really does happen, right? But the other piece that you brought up before about having conversation with politicians and so on.
Speaker 1:There are a couple of things that I've noticed throughout my experience, because it took me about 25 or so years to write the book because so much of it was in my head and developing and the journey and so on.
Speaker 1:What I find is that typically, with the not so pleasant interactions that we're seeing with all of our governments and that's world and United States and Canada and so on we don't take the time to listen and what I notice underneath that is that this is all about fear, because we're afraid to look bad, we're afraid that we don't have it all our shit together.
Speaker 1:We're afraid that we're not in control of everything and we don't need to be. We're not standalone, isolated, individual things. We are a humanity and in some cases I shake my head, particularly around education and healthcare, because I shake my head and I say why does your answer need to be the only one, whereas these should be nonpartisan discussions? This is the healthcare of our nation, this is the education of our nation, this is the love and the understanding and so on, and I get that. There are people in high places and spaces that could give a shit about emotions and they're all about the bottom line. Except you get a bigger bottom line if you have conversation and if you get people to do things and they understand their role and you value them in those places. Then we have more possibility for love and peace in the world.
Speaker 2:Beautiful.
Speaker 1:You can't tell that I'm just a tiny bit passionate about this topic. I love it. I think it's amazing.
Speaker 2:I'm mopping up what you're spilling, elizabeth. I love it. It's. I agree with you wholeheartedly, I really do, and I think just to speak on the division a little bit I think it's for division. I think division is serving in some way the political systems in the world and we're forced to pick a side here in the States.
Speaker 2:Canada similar, and I think when we can break it down into our daily lives and realize this is not about picking aside, it doesn't matter if I think I'm right and I think you're wrong Our beliefs, our life experience all these things are contributing to what we spend our money on, what we vote on, what we choose to do with our bodies and our healthcare.
Speaker 2:So I think that if we took a minute to get to know another one's perspective, that it wouldn't be so divisive as it is on social media. It wouldn't be. If they had middle school kids go to a overnight leadership retreat where they all did these team building exercises, the whole school would be friends. So we all just need to understand that we're from so many different walks of lives there's billions of us here and we're all different and just to understand where somebody is coming from I think is so valuable, which is why I'm so happy that you wrote your book and that you are writing another book. I'm so excited it's on my list. Will you tell us where we can get your first book? Courageous Conversations.
Speaker 1:Sure, you can get it on Amazon, but you can also go to my website, which is wwwCourageousNetworkcom, and I'm trying to build up some courses and things too, for people to be able to go there and, you know, just check things out and, you know, have a little look around and see what it is that they think that they might need some support with, because it's not about me trying to change, it's just providing different perspectives and trying just different kinds of ways to be able to speak with each other. And that's what I talk about in the book, as well as the five strategies of dedicated listening which we talked about, many of them without titles, but really it's. You know, it is our interaction, it's finding flow with each other, it's being intentional, and you know turning off our cell phone and putting the compute, you know shutting down the computer or your games or whatever it is, and really being focused and being intentional to be with someone else. And you know the piece that you talked about before about acknowledgement. You see, what we forget to do in all of this is acknowledge each other for the courage it takes to share. So if there's a particular issue or concern that, for example, that your child might be carrying at the moment, or even us as adults.
Speaker 1:You know, we try and manage things and we try and put things in the perspective and we take a breath every once in a while and we say, oh, I got this handled, or I manage, or what the hell am I going to do now?
Speaker 1:Because I can't manage it and we're so afraid to ask for help and because we need to keep. You know, we need to be in control and we're comparing ourselves with others, but the piece that we need to really recognize for each other in contribution is that if we have a particular issue or concern that we're sharing with someone else, then they need to be acknowledged, for you know. So if you're having a conversation with your child, as an example, and they share something that's heavy for them whether it is like very traumatic or whether it's just something that really is a concern, or whether it's just something that's really is, it's just heavy for them in order, we need to be able to acknowledge them by saying something you know I like, I want to thank you for sharing it with me and I can't believe that you held that all by yourself for so long. I hope that you feel that you can come and see me and that we can talk about things and that you don't have to be there out alone by yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so beautiful, this conversation is so inspiring, and I'm just you know, my wheels are always turning when I speak to amazing humans like you, elizabeth, because I'm just so, first of all, just blessed and so grateful that this is what I'm doing. You know, having conversations like this and I think that the more we talk about this you know courageous conversations that the ripple effect is real and that you know, this is going to influence lives and it's just, it's such a cool feeling. I love it, and I'm going to ask you some trying on something a little bit different, and I have three questions that I ask everybody at the end and I'm going to ask you those, but I'm going to add one in. So the first question, and no pressure at all. The first question is if you could create a class or teach a class for elementary age students right now, in our present day and age, what would it be about?
Speaker 1:What would it be about? I think, having fun and learning to be with each other and you know, cooperation and collaboration and just being able to acknowledge each other for the differences that we bring to the world and being accepting of each other. So it would probably be leadership 101 in kindergarten, that's right, that's right I've got.
Speaker 2:So I'm teaching a class locally for a small group coming up and it's going to be like a leadership class, a creative leadership class for girls ages six to 10. And so that's why I'm just so curious right now of brilliant minds like yours, of like what you would teach, and I'm very in alignment with that. So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1:Well, and one of the things that I that I have taught in a class and I did it, in fact, in a grade eight class when I was teaching language arts and I got the kids to line up opposite from each other, a diagonally across the room, and they had to meet in the middle and look at each other. And I get that. I get that different cultures do different things. But this was of a time when I was teaching it and I had them shake each other's hand, look into each other's eyes and say, hi, my name is. And they were so intimidated by that exercise and I thought, ok, well, next time I'm going to do it in grade one. That's right, because because it's about self esteem and it's about your own personal worth and hey, yeah, I'm worthy as a person too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you said that. Grade one, that's where it all starts. You know, before the age of 10, they're just sponges. Or you know seven, depending on what child development you know philosophy you're looking at. But you know, I've done it. A couple different personal development retreats and exercise where you pick a partner and you look into their eyes for like two minutes and it's like, oh, sounds simple. But when you're with another human being and all you're doing is looking in their eyes, I mean it's one of the most vulnerable places in spaces I've ever been in. You know, just seeing yourself in another and and it's, it can be scary because we didn't learn it in first grade yet. Right, you know where things are changing. So I'm I'm excited for that and I'm hopeful for the future. For sure, and your conversation and your books are bringing me hope and this conversation in general. So what's bringing you joy today?
Speaker 1:Having this conversation with you and being able to share it with your listeners and hopefully you know when I throw my fairy dust that it lands on people and they just try something just a little bit different. Get into that space of your own little bit of courage. Let it step forward.
Speaker 2:Yes, let the fairy dust land love bugs. I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What, if anything, are you reading right now?
Speaker 1:Oh, several things. So there's a woman in Calgary In fact she's on the oh my God, the Dragon's Den, which is like the Shark Tank in the US, and her name is Arlene Dickinson and she wrote a book called Reinvention, and so I'm reading that. I just picked up to renew myself into the Celestine prophecy, so I'm reading that at the same time, because there are just different things, like some evenings, you know, I need to be inspired, or some evenings I need to say, okay, elizabeth, what did you do for the world today? And you need to reinvent, or something like that, right? So there's a bunch of books and then I'm reading the Millionaire Maker by Laura Langmeyer, who is a profit, profit seeker in the United States, and she helps people become millionaires and she's got a philosophy around it that I quite enjoy, and it was like, okay, what do I need to be doing differently, right? So there's lots of teaching and learning and just joyful space of oh, I haven't thought of it from that perspective, right? And that helps me to have courageous conversations too.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you for sharing those. I love that. And the last question is who or what has taught you the most?
Speaker 1:Oh God, just being in life, holy Hannah. Yeah, the daily experiences are, you know, things that because I really enjoy the space of gratitude. So when I look around like I'm, you know I'm grateful for my life, I'm grateful for these opportunities to be able to share with other people. I love it when I go to the ocean, like I just you know, or the mountains, because I have the luxury of driving an hour to them. You know, the energy in the world in most days lifts me up. Some days it's heartbreaking, but I'm still grateful for the opportunity to be alive and to do good things and hopefully I can make a change.
Speaker 2:Ah, life, school Isn't it glorious. Thank you so much for being here and for the work you do. Thank you so much again. We'll put all of your links in the show notes so everybody can find you and follow you and get your book Courageous Conversations. I'm so excited to share this conversation with the world.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks so much. It was a pleasure being with you today. This was a fun conversation.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you, thank you.