PIVOTal Choices in Marriage, Family, Faith & Finances with Cindy Marler

From reluctant homeschooler to co-founder of an educational center, get ready for groundbreaking insights from Cindy Marler, co-founder of CHEC the Center. Cindy's journey weaves through the path of becoming an alternative educator, marriage struggles, and taking personal responsibility for her healing, leaving us with nuggets of wisdom about the power of  choosing what works for us and our families while serving our communities in the process.

👉Learn more about CHEC the Center, an education center serving students in Palm Beach County with camps, clubs, after-school programs and more!!

QUOTES, RESOURCES & LINKS

“If you put money into the hands of good people, good things are going to happen.” —Cindy Marler

“Religious hurts are from people, not from God.” 

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” —Galatians 5:22-23

“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.” —Corinthians 13 

"PIIIIIVVVVOOTTTT!!!!" —Ross Geller 

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Transcript

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Empowering Mothers

Speaker 1 0:02

Welcome , Revolutionary Mama , to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast . I'm Ryan Watkin , Educator , Mama of Three Reveal it Heart and Passionate Soul , on a Mission to empower and inspire you .

Speaker 1 0:16

Here we'll explore psychology , spirituality , parenthood and the intersection where they all come together . We'll discover how challenges can be fertile soil for growth and that even in the messy middle of motherhood , we can find magic in the mundane . Join me on my own personal journey as I talk to experts and share resources on education , creativity , self-care , family , culture and more . I believe we can change the world by starting at home in our own minds and hearts , and that when we do , we'll be passing down the most important legacy there is Healing , and so it is . Welcome back loves to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast . I feel so excited and honored to just be having these conversations and be sharing them with you . It's one of my favorite things to do . I know you guys have figured that out by now . I just love sitting down with somebody and getting to the heart of the matter , literally , and I know you guys are hearing more and more like some different perspectives , some different viewpoints . I think it's really important and I mentioned this in my trailer episode I think it's really important for us to have varied perspectives and not to live in this echo chamber and you know everybody where they're two feet are standing today , like they have a story . They have goals , they have visions , they have dreams for their lives . They have reasons why they do things , and so I'm just so excited to have today's guest with us .

Speaker 1 1:49

We're going to be talking about a lot of different things homeschooling , motherhood , financial independence a lot of different things .

Speaker 1 1:55

Like before we even hit record , everything came up and it was just so good . Sometimes I wish you guys could hear the conversation before the conversation . And the reason that this interview came to be is because I was scrolling on Facebook yesterday and I saw a video by this dear woman named Cindy Marlar at Check the Center . She is one of the co-founders there and she was talking about how she interviewed mothers and women for teaching positions for Check the Center and how she cried twice and how she just wanted to tell women you are worth it , Because oftentimes as women , as mothers especially for me when I became a mother my worth meter went down a little bit because I felt I want to stay at home , I want to be a big part of my kids' education and for some reason , society is telling us that that's not as valuable as something else . So I'm really excited for this conversation . Cindy is just a badass and I'm really excited for you guys to meet her . So welcome to the podcast , Cindy .

Speaker 2 2:58

Thanks so much , ryan , I'm so excited to be here . And , ryan , I have to give you a shout out . I am really , really picky about who I'll listen to and who I'll let into my head and my thoughts . I'm very careful about that and I always like to know someone's fruit before I'm willing to listen to what they have to say . So , honestly , I've only listened to one podcast in my life before I caught up on all your podcasts , which were phenomenal .

Speaker 2 3:22

But I have met your husband , I know him , I've seen your children and your fruit is there . So if you guys are listening to Ryan's podcast , I want you to tell you she is practicing what she preaches . Her children are peaceful and gentle and joyful and kind and her husband is the real deal and her family is her priority and I've seen it in her driveway with her baby on her hip and she's living out what she's saying . And I'm always so hesitant to listen to anyone I don't know , because I want to know that what you're saying is possible to live out and , knowing you , ryan , and your family your whole family you're living it out and you're the real deal . So I was honored when you asked to ask me to come here and share some of my thoughts .

Speaker 1 4:04

Okay , well , I'm crying now , so thank you for that . I mean , it's a good day , I can laugh and cry and then write . I know it's still postpartum . Oh my gosh , cindy , thank you . I'm receiving that with my whole heart and I love you and I feel , gosh , the exact same way about you . I just your energy , your way of being , your vision that you're bringing to life . It's absolutely spectacular . The way that you serve not only your own family , but the families in your community and our community in general is so inspiring . I literally have goosebumps saying it .

Speaker 1 4:39

I do too . We're so cheesy , love it .

Speaker 2 4:42

Thank you , love it .

Speaker 1 4:44

Yes , oh , thank you . What a beautiful day and I'm just so happy to be here with you . So when I first met you and talked to you , we talked for maybe 45 minutes and I got off the phone and I told Nate , my husband I was like , so this woman , like Cindy , she says we're doing everything okay . Because , like I believe it was when Marley was going into kindergarten and I was so nervous as a homeschooling mom like to be , and I was just like to somebody tell me that I'm okay , I was like spinning around and you brought this like grounded , just heartfelt perspective to it , also very like practical and suck it up buttercup , like hey , you're doing a great .

Speaker 2 5:30

I don't know how to separate those two for some reason . Yeah , look at your daughter now . Isn't she amazing ? She's amazing . Yeah , it all works out . Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 5:41

It's such a testament to the choices we make , and also I think it has nothing to do with me too .

Speaker 2 5:45

Oh my gosh Like I think we have .

Speaker 1 5:47

Oh my gosh , like part of me is like you know what . I just need to not stop worrying about all these decisions because , like they are who they are and you know we do model a way to be for them , and I think that's really important . But so , yeah , I just your presence and your knowledge was really , really helpful to a very nervous , very up in the air potential homeschool mother . So you're one of the reasons that I was able to take the leap and really felt okay doing it . So thank you for that too .

Speaker 2 6:18

You're so welcome . You're so welcome . I think that it's so important that we have women in our lives that are a step ahead of us , and then you know they're pulling us up , and then we have someone below us that we're pulling them up . You know , and I think of it like those little monkeys . You know , those little monkeys that connect A barrel of monkeys . Yeah , it's a podcast , but it's my first one . So visualize so those little connecting monkeys , barrel of monkeys .

Speaker 2 6:40

Yes , you know , I think of it like that . And if we have too many , we're holding up on our own , then it breaks the chain , and if we are only being lifted up , then we're not doing our part , you know . So I think whatever confidence I passed on to you was passed on to me and I'm very intentional about finding both of those people in my life and all of the five equities I focus on is who is lifting me up and who am I helping up in this category , you know , in this area . So I'm happy . I was just passing it right through me , so I'm happy it had that effect on you .

Speaker 1 7:11

Oh my gosh , that's amazing , and I'll make sure to share the love and pass it down . You know like I'm going to pass it on , yes , so what

Reluctant Homeschooling and Alternative Education Paths

Speaker 1 7:21

originally like ? This is my favorite question for homeschooling mothers and I don't think we've actually ever talked about this what made you decide to homeschool your three children ?

Speaker 2 7:29

Yeah , I'm going to have to keep this short , which is something I'm not good at , but I didn't want to . And now , as I'm you know , my oldest is going into eighth grade . I consider myself an alternative educator rather than a homeschooler , because I do believe that's like a new box of education that didn't have , doesn't have a name quite yet . Although I didn't come up with the alternative education thing , I think it is getting coined something but I never wanted to . I got my real estate license in college . I just wanted to be a realtor making a million dollars a year , and my kids were going to go to private Christian school and I was going to use lunch as a verb , right , so instead of it being a noun , I was going to lunch with my friends . I'm very social , I'm very outgoing . That was my plan and in a lot of ways , that hasn't really changed . Other things have just shifted into a higher seat right now . But I didn't want to , and a lot of that is part of my God story , which would be a whole other podcast on its own . But I sent my daughter to a private Christian school my oldest for a year , and then I had my third child when she was entering kindergarten and frankly it was laziness . I was like I'm going to take a baby and a toddler and put him in the car five days a week for drop off and pick up for kindergarten and no sense . Yeah , makes no sense . And my first one is my academically talented one , which makes her no more special than the other ones , but she was my first , so of course I took all credit for everything she did . So she started reading when she was four and a half she could read out of the King James version of the Bible . I used this as a party trick , shamelessly , because I thought I am exactly the mother I always thought I'd be . That's right , I'm one and a half year old , can read words . I mean , I just took 100% of the credit and she couldn't comprehend what she was reading . It was really just like a phonological clicking in her head . But so then I was like , wait , I'm gonna do all this work to get her to kindergarten and you're just gonna teach her how to read . I was like , check , we're done .

Speaker 2 9:27

So I stayed home , kept her home for kindergarten , really just unschooled . I really believe more in an unschooling model which I think we've spoken about before those first two to three years , depending on your child and their unique gifts and talents , and then starting in the first grade . Then I got that paranoia , that feeling . It was August 1st and I was like , okay , well , she already knew how to read and that's what they teach them at kindergarten . But what is she gonna miss out that they teach them in first grade ?

Speaker 2 9:52

So my sister's best friend was the principal of a local school and gets her into the dual language program coveted school in our county and she enters the dual language program . So she's spending half her day learning in Spanish and then I'm back in the car with the toddler and now the second toddler , the third toddler , right , so the two little ones . I'm back in the car and I'm just not a pretty person in car lines Like it's just not my best me . And my oldest has your . You know she is someone that I would say it would be prone to more anxiousness , perfectionism , all of that . You could call it first born , you could call it how God made her . So by Thursday or Friday on some weeks she was vomiting on the way to school . You know just her nerves . Or if nothing was happening . You know it was just that stress up out the house . I'm like , you know , it was just very stressful so , but I stuck it out that whole year , ryan , you know that's how it was raised . I look back I'm like I was like , well , we'll just finish out the year , and I'm like your six year old was vomiting on the way to school . And you're sticking it out , cindy , well done . And this is where my faith comes in , because there are some parts I am mailing in and some parts I am royally screwed up . Who sticks it out for the sake of like sticking it out , vomiting by Thursday or Friday ? But anyways , we stuck it out and God's filled in the gaps for me . And that was first grade . And then I was like , all right , god , all right , we're gonna homeschool .

Speaker 2 11:10

So then I started homeschooling in second grade , but it was never something that I was like passionate about in the sense of sitting around a table . You know , teaching my children school subjects , core subjects , does nothing for me . Like you know , some people are like don't you love sitting down and reading history with your kid ? No , I don't . Like I love talking to my kids and teaching about the things I'm passionate about , you know , about character traits and work ethic and things like that , but sitting down and teaching them like grammar , no , no , I could definitely do without it .

Speaker 2 11:39

So then , as I got involved in a co-op and learn , I just started to slowly create something that I wanted for my children , which is where most of that stuff was taken off the plate . So while they were home with me , I could focus on the things I did want to teach them and enjoy teaching them . And then that journey God just kept bringing us in . And then one of the things that led to check the center was that as I started with her in second grade and the other two coming up the pike , I realized there was a ton . We have an amazing Palm Beach County is amazing for homeschoolers . But there were so many options available for elementary and then they dwindled by middle and then like nothing for high school , and I was like , well , that's not a lot of bang for my buck , like I'm gonna do all this work and then we're gonna get to middle and high school and there's not gonna be any options for them . So I tried to get everyone I knew to create something and do it , and I couldn't . So then I just did it myself and so check the center opened up to forward think a place really for my own children and other homeschoolers for those middle and high school years that they'd have a place and the same place to keep going .

Speaker 2 12:42

So I'm a reluctant homeschooler . Like I said , I call myself alternative educator . I love the flexibility . My husband and I are both still realtors . Our schedule can include working on the weekends . It includes downtime in the morning , we can have breakfast together and I love the flexibility of what alternative education gives for our family and the life we want .

Speaker 2 13:05

And the older I get , the more I realize we wanna tell ourselves we're doing it for them . But a lot of it we're doing for ourselves and that's totally okay . That is okay . But they're not our guinea pigs in life , so it's okay to share with them . This is what works for our family .

Speaker 2 13:23

I'm the mother of this household . When you guys are moms , you're gonna do what works best for you guys . This works for me , so I've learned to embrace that , not thinking I'm doing them some big favor , cause I know tons of people raising kids through our public school system and these are phenomenal , top notch kids . I just interviewed one of them , graduated through our local public school system and she's one of the ones I cried from . She was just top notch . And we're fooling ourselves if we're thinking one way is better than the other , or one way is this , it's the parenting , it's the home , it's the stuff outside of that . So the more I've embraced that it's okay for me to do this , because it works for me and it's a little easier for me , and any route we went with them was gonna have its ups and downs . If you put yourself too much up on that pedestal oh , we homeschool , we this , we that then man , once you're on a pedestal , it's sure easy to get knocked down .

Speaker 1 14:14

It is yes , it is .

Speaker 1 14:16

I think so many of these I can really personally resonate with that so many of these decisions that we make for our children becomes an inflated view of us and who we are as parents and kind of this egoic thing . I can speak similarly for my homeschooling journey . I can speak similarly for my home birth journey , which I labored at home for 24 hours and then ended up giving birth in the hospital and I still , a year and a half later , have this like this ego thing of like well , who does that say about me that I didn't give birth at home , you know ? And so it's an opportunity for us to take a look at what we are building up in our heads and kind of like glorifying in the name of like we're just the greatest . And thank you for being honest about being a reluctant homeschooling mom . I really relate to that too , and I think that's such a beautiful and honest approach of saying like I didn't think I would do this , I didn't always wanna do this and now it works best for us .

Speaker 1 15:15

My grandma , who's now I think she's 95 . Wow , she told me .

Speaker 1 15:20

I know she's just amazing it's , oh , it's such a gift . I could sit and talk to her for all day because I just love hearing her life and her perspective on things . And you know , it's not as if she didn't make mistakes , or you know she had six children . She has 10 grandchildren . She's had just a full , beautiful , blessed life . And she told me when we had our first child .

Speaker 1 15:47

She said , ryan , make sure you remember you were here first and I thought , hmm , and I still have mixed emotions about that , because I've had these seasons where I pour everything into my kids and then there's nothing left for me . And then I , the resentment has piled up and it's been silent and I haven't even noticed it and then all of a sudden , like the floor falls out from under me and I'm like what the heck ? So I think that's really important to have this balance of putting ourselves , our needs , our passions up here really like at the forefront , you know , with our kids and our marriages and God and our spirituality and everything that we need to devote and give to in this life .

Speaker 2 16:32

And , I think , recognizing what we were given the gift of muscle memory with as a child that we can carry it into . So , like two days before our 10th wedding anniversary , my husband and I separated and he moved out and for three and a half months and I thought our marriage was over and he didn't I asked for the separation . It's your very cliche story of three kids in five years and trying to work and not , you know , a down recession at the time . I mean , the story is as old as the time is new . But I was ready to give up on our marriage because I thought I didn't have a partner . You know it didn't feel like I had a partner , it didn't feel like I had someone who understood , it didn't feel like I had all those things and you know . And then I embarked on a year of counseling and I went to co-dependence anonymous . I mean you named it . If you were like , come to the beach and we dig holes in the sand and that helps us heal , I was like , okay , I'll try it once . I mean , at that point I was just willing to do anything because I thought I thought we both came from broken homes , my husband and I , and I thought that would never be me . So I was so caught off guard by that pedestal .

Speaker 2 17:36

You know that we were talking about before and in that time I learned that I'm not married to someone who's not my partner , not my teammate , not a good , you know , helper . I'm married to someone who's just broken , like me , and we have to spend my husband and I don't have the muscle memory of what it looks like to be in a loving , supporting , respectful marriage . You know , my mother is deceased but our living parents would tell you the same thing and they're all very cordial with one another , but that wasn't modeled for us . So it takes so much work and so much intention . You know , when I thought about it after I was on the brink of losing my marriage , then I realized that why am I spending ? I could read 32 parenting books , you know . But every expert will tell you the best thing you can do for them is model for them , you know , a happy , healthy relationship with your spouse . So I'm like , well , I need to pivot a little bit . You know I can make the perfect lunch right , friends , with the couch , remember Ross .

Speaker 1 18:42

Exactly every time .

Speaker 2 18:43

Pivot , pivot . If you haven't seen that , everybody go to that episode and they're moving a couch up the stairs and it's hysterical . Ross is screaming out pivot . So that was me . I was like pivot , who cares that my kids will eat avocado , you know , if their dad's coming home and I'm this miserable woman blaming him for what I've done to myself , you know ? So I pivoted and my youngest her birthday's , right around our anniversary again . This was right at our 10th anniversary and she was just turned three and I told myself , ryan , this is terrible . I told myself they were so young , they're not gonna remember it . We were only separated for three and a half months .

Speaker 1 19:22

Oh , no , they remember .

Speaker 2 19:24

Oh yeah , this is how God keeps you humble . We'll just be like riding in the car and you're like , what a beautiful day . I'm such a great mom , I'm such a great wife . And they'll be like , are you and daddy , are we gonna get separated again ? And you're like , oh , that was six years ago .

Speaker 2 19:37

But I'm sure glad that you know of all the childhood memories

Prioritizing Marriage in Parenthood

Speaker 2 19:41

you're gonna have . I'm sure glad that three months , you know , made it , you know , and it's being real with them about . You know , gosh , daddy and I are doing our best , but we , you know , I don't know I don't have a crystal ball , but we have gotten more . We've gotten much better about letting them know that they're not our priority . You know , I hate to say that they are , especially at the stage you're in , where you still have a baby and a toddler around , they are the most time consuming thing in your life , for sure , hands down , it's easy to love them , which is why it takes less time to be good at that , because it's not as easy to love our spouse . So you know , right about that 10 year mark , that we , I pivoted , I pivoted my personal life and I made our relationship the priority in our home and our kids know it and some of this I'm winging right . I don't know it's gonna turn out , but I've always said to them I'm willing to pay for counseling . I'm an open book , you know , but I just I wanna get this relationship right and I'm trusting that the experts say if I get that right , there's some trickle down and it takes a lot of energy .

Speaker 2 20:42

My husband and I takes a lot of energy . We are both very strong , we're very stubborn , we're very selfish . Independently . We both had these big dreams for our life that we put on the back burner to be the parents we wanna be . My husband's an amazing father , just like Nate , and self jealousy comes up , you know , when one gets an opportunity that the other doesn't . Jealousy comes up over the extra spending money , you know , and who gets the newer , nicer car first . You know it all rears its ugly head and it takes . Oh , and I was saying about the muscle memory thing is , you know , I think I see couples that this was modeled for them . You know , the healthy marriage and they don't have to spend as much time on it , and that's okay . But we recognize we do . We just like that time together , or that time like or that course or that class , that's not optional for our marriage . You know , and I married my best friend and it's still . We never forget that we're just one season away from losing what we've worked on .

Speaker 1 21:39

All the feels for all of that . Thank you so much for sharing .

Speaker 2 21:44

I've never shared that on a public platform but I heard one time during that season I was speaking of trying everything . I was going to improv classes with one of the owners of Czech . She's our artistic director and she's a professional actress . She's come to improv . It's so healing . It really is . For anyone listening that ever wants therapies expensive , we all know I'd recommend finding some local improv classes .

Speaker 2 22:07

You get in touch with yourself real quick . But I learned in there and one of the classes it said you can make jokes from your . Let me get this right you can make a joke from your scar . Do not make jokes from your wounds , because the wound isn't closed up yet . I have taken that with our separation in that time . We're coming up on that being six years ago , just in the past about year . I hear us willing to share about it or make a joke about it or even . But it was a wound for almost five years . I learned that you can start talking about things whether it's a miscarriage or a loss of a child or things once it becomes a scar . But while it's still a wound , it's yours to protect and hold on to and you're still changing the bandage , making sure it gets the air and the protection it needs from outside influences , because until that point it's still subject to getting worse .

Speaker 1 22:59

first Right I think that's brilliant . I do appreciate so much having somebody a few steps ahead of me . We just celebrated our 10-year anniversary in June .

Speaker 2 23:10

Congratulations , thank you .

Speaker 1 23:12

We celebrate that we choose and choose again . Then we choose again each other .

Speaker 1 23:19

We choose again . It hasn't been an easy road . We've been through ups , downs and the gamut just like every relationship too but I think you hit the nail on the head when it is the hardest possible possibly for most of us relationship in our lives . I think that's important to say . Yet you're saying it was hard . It still is hard and we're still choosing each other . That's really important to have that honest dialogue , because I think what we see a lot of course on social media and out and about it's not necessarily reality . We need to really get honest with ourselves and with each other .

Speaker 2 23:57

It's not Without going into specifics , because I've chosen to not . Our marriage has experienced things that people get divorced over . You can read between the lines of what you want . With that and we've gone through it I can tell you forgiveness is possible . I can tell you falling in love again is possible . I can tell you that moving on from hard things is not only possible . It honestly can be something that you look back on and you appreciate . It doesn't feel like that for a long time , but it can look back and be like if going through that took getting to where we are now , I'd do it again .

Speaker 1 24:36

Yeah , I remember when I was in college I was taking a women in literature class and I had this very hip which I loved . It's one of the only classes I remember from college women and lit I had this very progressive , funky feminist teacher and I really got a kick out of her . She was one of the things she would teach . But she said and this was I was in my twenties , kids weren't even a thought , marriage was not even a thought . But she said she had a young toddler at the time and I will remember it forever . She said well , yeah , I have a toddler and my husband is the most important person in my life over my kid . And I called my mom one day and I was like , is dad more important to you than me ? And I was like no , shaking the head , saying no , exactly , she and she goes . Well , I guess I never thought about it , but yeah , and I was like what the heck ?

Speaker 1 25:32

And so that was really shocking for me and I think you know I think that's important because it's easy for me , really easy , to pour everything into my children and it's really easy to like go a couple of days and be like , oh hey , how are you , and you know , to your partner and your husband , like , so I love this , I love this conversation . This is really inspiring for me to even do a better job of putting him first . Like , even though I heard that so long ago , it still comes up as a challenge you know ?

Speaker 2 27:09

Oh , I just finished reading this book called Queens Code and for some reason it's not like super available

Exploring Women's Financial Empowerment

Speaker 2 27:16

on Amazon but it's called the Queens Code .

Speaker 2 27:19

And you know , I've read a ton of like wife books and everything and everyone . Has its little impact , but this was written in fiction format . It was so fun to read .

Speaker 2 27:27

It was about like a woman mentoring two women , one that's single and one that's married and it just presented our men as they are , you know , for it's just really well done , you know , and it reminded me it had been a few years , because obviously our separation was almost six years ago and so it's been a few years since I've really kind of invested in a book that was really just about getting to know men and our husband . And then I'm like oh , Cindy , you need to do this more , you know , because I started applying some of the things I learned in the book right away and even like a moment got better , a date night got better . You know , we are just made differently and if we don't continue , if we continue to try to make men understand us and not try to understand them , you know , it's a losing battle . It's about understanding each other , you know , and their fears are different than our fears , you know , and both legitimate , you know .

Speaker 1 28:16

So totally , yeah , we're made completely different and that's like there's a reason for the polarity too , Like that's what brings us together . So I think that's really important , yeah , ok . So where do we want to go from here ? Because there's so much . You know , when I heard you talking about financial success for women , I got really , really inspired . Your Facebook Live yesterday I just like I was like captivated by it . You were like speaking to my soul about women and how they're worth so much more and how we don't think we're worth so much more . And , especially after becoming mothers , like it's OK to want to work 10 hours a week or less , like this isn't a half dollar for that , totally . So tell me , like , how that journey for you has evolved . So your journey with finances , your journey for saying like I'm worth it . I want to get paid for what I'm worth . Everyone should get paid for what they're worth . Tell me about that journey . Was it always easy ? Was it hard ? Like , where did it come from ?

Speaker 2 29:12

OK , yeah , so I have always loved Not more than God I always like to say , but I've loved the idea of making money . I was always interested in it . I started reading books about making money in high school Like I heard on one of your podcasts your journey in reading books and I started reading chicken soup for the soul for teenagers back in the 90s and I was always interested like how does this person with their life make this amount of money and this person doesn't ? And this always interested me and fascinated me . And I grew up in an upper middle class family for a while with access to the best private school education money can buy . And then my parents got divorced and then I went to public school . So I experienced kind of both sides of the middle class . I like to keep things in a global perspective so I experienced like the upper middle class , the lower middle class , and it was always confusing to me , like why does one have this and not the other ? And then so I started reading about it and I became very , very fascinated by money and I was like great , that's me , I'm gonna pave my way , I'm gonna make a million dollars a year , I'm getting my real estate license , because school was never really my thing . This is what I'm gonna do .

Speaker 2 30:22

But then I always didn't wanna be a mom Like you're saying . That wasn't a thought in your mind . I sat in my women's lit class so maybe they all need to be progressive because this was mine at FSU and everyone's like what do you wanna do ? And I was like I wanna be a mom . And then I immediately felt like , like are they gonna throw their Birkenstocks at me ? I don't know what's gonna happen . So then I changed my major to sociology and I said my father's in there , but it just wasn't my people . But I do love me a good pair of Birkenstocks . Then I was like so then I didn't know , I didn't know how to . No one talked to us really about money or making money , or my mom grew up super , super poor , so she had a poverty mindset from the day she died to the day she died , although she was a higher earner as a flight attendant in her time . So this whole like moving from a poverty mindset to not having one is a journey I'm on .

Speaker 2 31:15

And then once I realized that women , man , we just give it all away for free , right , and I don't know if we're biologically hardwired because we have children to expect . Like we are the volunteers here and we're volunteers there , and like I don't know if you've noticed men volunteering , but they think of their time differently than we do . They think of their time . They're not selfish or greedy . They will volunteer for the kids baseball team , they're gonna help a friend move , but they have a pickup truck which we learned that lesson we got to pick up a year later . We're like no , no , like you get all those calls . You're all of a sudden like the moving company . I'm like Luke , we don't work out . I'm like we're gonna hurt ourselves helping people move . I go , we better be the couple that like comes and helps and buys the pizza or something , so anyway .

Speaker 2 32:00

But I started to notice this discrepancy between the two genders , and I am not a proponent that the genders can ever be the same . I don't believe that . But why , all of a sudden , do we have this value of ourselves financially , that because we take time off or because we don't have as much experience in the workforce , that we're all of a sudden not worth as much per hour or salary wise when we come back ? Especially when I study all these success books , all these biographies , all these autobiographies and all the common traits of success are exactly what a mother possesses , especially a stay at home mom . Oh my gosh , like all of the like 10 common characteristics of successful and I'm like stay at home mom , stay at home mom , stay at home mom , stay at home mom . I mean I didn't understand them why we can't get there , and I truly still don't . But I am passionate about women going out there and find what you're worth . I've got cleaning ladies coming to my house wanting $40 an hour good for them . And I've got ladies coming in with like 32 degrees on a resume , willing to work for 20 .

Speaker 2 33:08

Yeah , and I'm like we gotta just shift this . Let me say , if you put money back into the hands of good people , good things happen . You riot are going to . When you have a neighbor that needs help or something , you're the one that's gonna send over dinner or drop off a gas gift card . I'm not gonna help your neighbor because I have no idea who they are , but you can't do that if there's not enough . You know , I also see that we live in an expensive county , so people move out of the county . They move out of the county because they're like I just can't afford to live there and I hate that . I'm like we should be able to afford where we live because we live where we live , because there's more money to be made here . So why aren't we going out with the confidence to take our piece of the pie that we are prepared for , educated for , we have the practice for , and it's really I saw sitting in these interviews that the way they come across , they think that this time they took with their children and most of them still worked at some level somehow that they have to like start back at square one , and I don't believe that . I believe , oh so , whether or not , however , you believe about her politically and I'm not a very political person , but I read Nancy Pelosi's biography or autobiography a long time ago and this is gonna be paraphrasing a lot , so you know , if anyone reads this , I'm welcome to your thoughts on it .

Speaker 2 34:28

But she raised five kids , never had a job besides raising those five kids and like the super moming it . You know the PTA , the , this , the that she goes right into politics from raising five kids , no job experience , and she gets to one of , like the Senate floors , the state floors I don't know this is coming out . You can't be good at everything people in politics , and it's not what I'm good at , I wasn't a poly-sci major and she gets to the floor and she's telling one of her other friends you know another politician there , another woman and she's like oh my gosh , I'm getting all these opportunities . People keep coming up to me and asking me to be on this committee and that committee . She's like what can I do ? I don't have time for all this . And she said the woman was from some like Southern state and like grabbed her by the shoulders , I'm sure in her like St John's suit , and was like listen up , you would never hear a man say he has too many opportunities . And she said , from that moment on she never thought that way again .

Speaker 2 35:20

So I think that we put so much pressure on the job we have as moms to be so good at it that that's the level we think we need to pour into everything . So I'll have these women come in as teachers and they're like I prepared this science project today and I'm looking at it and I'm like well , that must have taken you six hours . And they're like it did and I'm like well , like you know , I don't think that was like . I don't think that was necessary . So we really I think our lack of self worth makes us put so much extra time into everything that we do limit ourselves , even preparing for this podcast . Right , I wasn't gonna prepare for a podcast the first one I've ever been asked to speak on , thank you so much without gathering as much information .

Speaker 2 36:02

So I spent about four hours early this morning listening to all your past podcasts . I gotta say I'm not sure if a man would have done that or if he would have just been like okay , ryan Watkin , raising Wild Hearts 11 am done . You know it's okay for us to realize and embody that our experience is the preparation .

Embracing Seasons

Speaker 2 36:26

Our life was the preparation for my science teacher . Your life and teaching science for 17 years was the preparation . You can just buy the kit and walk into the class because it's all up here . You know , you've been preparing your whole life . You know , but we , I don't know . What do you think about this , ryan ?

Speaker 1 36:46

Let's make a difference . Oh gosh , I love it . I have like a little quote thing . I'm just a quote obsessed person , but it says perhaps this is the moment you were created for . And I do believe that all of our experience , our story , what we've been through , what we've walked through , the challenges , the amazingness , I think it all brings us to where we are now and that , yeah , we do have it Worth is something that I've struggled with as a mom .

Speaker 1 37:10

I watched my grandmother have six kids and stay at home and be the super mom and whatever , and she did have a lot of support . But I remember asking her , like grandma , if you could go back , what would you have done ? And she laughed , she laughed , she like it . It wasn't even . She couldn't even comprehend it . No , like she never was . Like , oh , if I only went to work , who knows ? I mean it just it wasn't an option for her . And then I watched my mother build a business on her back , hustle . I mean , just go out there and put herself out there .

Speaker 1 37:48

And so I had these two very strong , very different you know models of women in my life and I think I have the best of both of them and I think my takeaway and what's really coming up for me is that we can have both and we can have it all . I mean I said to Nate recently I go , I just , I just want it all . I wanna have 10 hours a week to food prep . I'm that , I just want a food prep , that's I like to do it . And I wanna feed our family organic food and that's just my jam . And I wanna have 10 hours a week to devote to my physical health . I wanna meditate an hour a day . I wanna read and I wanna educate my kids and I wanna go to all their stuff and I wanna have friends and I wanna have an amazing hot marriage . I want it all , actually All of it , and we can have it all we just this is .

Speaker 2 38:41

I love this . I was thinking about this today .

Speaker 1 38:43

We can have it all .

Speaker 2 38:45

Women . Listen up , get out a pen and paper . We can have it all . We just can't have it all at the same time . That's just what we need to learn , including I love that you said the hot marriage , because I always visualize .

Speaker 2 39:00

I'm like I wanna be married to Lou for 50 years and we're still having hot sex at the end . That's right . That's one of my visualizations . But you know what ? The thing about hot sex ? That has seasons too , like for me , month three , four and five it's pretty hot , heavy in our bedroom . A pregnancy , oh yeah yeah , month three , four and five , all those stories about that , that was me . I don't know what came over me . I was like animal in heat for three months , but then months six , seven , eight , nine , baby come , and then the following year it was like the Sahara Desert , just like Don't touch me , prize spell , right , like , you know , just if another thing touches me . So , even that , even hot marriages , we can have . But that's not all the time . You know , our seasons to earn money aren't all the time . Our seasons to parent aren't all the time . So we can have it all .

Speaker 2 39:51

My daughters wanna be , you know , an artist and work at Disney and work at the American Girl Doll Store and do this and do that . They're like I have so many things I wanna do . I'm like great , do them all . You just can't do them all at the same time , right , and I hope to coach them through . Great , you wanna work at the American Girl Doll Store . Well , that might be a good time to do that during college . If you go where there's a city near wanna do that for a year , then you know you wanna do this . Like we can help guide them to planting things in seasons that are better than others . You know , working at the American Girl Doll Store for $11 an hour might not be the best use of your time at 45 , you know . But teaching them that there's , you know , a season , but yes , I want it all too . I want it all , and mine includes . I just want it If it's out . If it's out there and I don't know about it , I still want it .

Excitement and Challenges of Parenting Teens

Speaker 1 41:41

Somebody tell us something that we don't even know , about that we don't even know we want yeah , I'm like where do you go on vacation ?

Speaker 2 41:47

People say I'm like , oh , yeah , okay , I think I'm going to go punch on an African safari . I don't know if I do , but I want the option . I want the option . I want an African safari . Maybe I do , ryan , I don't know .

Speaker 1 41:59

Right . I love that . I think that's a really important narrative for us to step into too , because it's not just , like you know , we don't just get the breadcrumbs , like we don't just , but we do feel like that sometimes . As parents , you know , we're trying to do all the things , we're trying to show up for our kids , we're trying to show up for our partners and not to mention ourselves , you know . So I think it's . I think let's step into that narrative . We can have it all not at the same time . Seasons love it .

Speaker 2 42:28

We can have it all , love it .

Speaker 1 42:30

As we start to wrap up , I don't even know . The last question I want to ask you , because there's , like so many other things that I want to ask you . But how about ? Let's go with . Let's go with what's exciting in your life right now . What are you most excited about ?

Speaker 2 42:44

Ooh , okay , what I'm most excited about I have a teenager now and you know everything you know about parenting and everything you train for goes out the window . And then it's like you're doing it all over again and it's exciting . You know what you , when I look at like your baby , who you know , I try when I get a chance to hold someone's baby . It just means so much to me because and I think I've shared this with you before when I've gotten a chance to hold him , you do have to mourn it . Sometimes I can't even look at pictures of my children when they were young because it's very emotional for me . Still Like I don't think it's a scar yet , you know , it's still a little bit of a wound , it's fresh and it's and I can make me tear up missing it . Just it feels like a pain in my chest . But that I'm mourning that . But at the same time I almost get this like rebirth of parenting now with these teens and it's like the next stage of it . So I'm going to mourn the fat , chubby thighs , the sound of the diaper running into your room , the sweet voices , and then the next stage is I'm going to mourn that , while I am excited about what this looks like and the eye rolls and the door slam and the unpredictability of a teenager is so incredible because I remember being it , so getting the chance , and I remember what I'd want done different , you know . So getting the chance to witness it . And then my chance , you know , like my chance to what would you do , you know , and it really is exciting .

Speaker 2 44:15

And I told my husband and we're new into teenagehood , but I said for right now we're going to think of her like a pregnant person , where you know , when you're pregnant and you're irrational and you're asking for food and nothing makes sense , and your husband's just like , okay , yeah , because he knows that season's going to end , he's going to have the baby and he hopes you're going to return to a rational , logical minded person . So I was like we're just going to think of her like that . This is a season , so her little random like outbursts or eye rolls or you know she's now tells us what we could do better all the time . We're just look at her and we're thinking of her like a pregnant person in our home . That we are just understanding and it almost has made us team up together , you know , because sometimes we'll just like one of us comes home and the other one's been gone and we like look at each other across the house , engage like what's the temperature in the house right now , you know ? Or sometimes we're like we're just going to head out to dinner , you know , we leave him home alone and , like you're going out again , we're like mm . Hmm , yeah , yeah , just keep all that right here in the house , will be back at two hours .

Speaker 2 45:20

So I think that I'm most excited about the opportunity to get to parent alongside my parents in a way that I always dreamed I would . But it never looks like how we dreamed it , would . You know it's going to be different and and seeing that and honoring it and just failing again . You know it's like people are like , if could you , would you parent again ? You like I'd go back if I could .

Speaker 2 45:43

Now I feel like I'm almost going back to the beginning of parenting and like who do I want to be ?

Speaker 2 45:48

You know , do I want to be the one that is going to care if you don't get the a , because I know you're capable of it ? I'm the one that's going to care about crop tops , or am I the one that's going to care about ? You know we're a cell phone free family so far , so that we've chosen to care about you know , with a going into eighth grader , like who are we going to be ? And it's all new conversations and it's all new parenting and it's so fun to get to be like a new parent again , but with wisdom , and our marriage is stronger and we're ready . And I remember sitting , I remember thinking before and it all started for us when the oldest turned 12 . So now we're experiencing it with both of our older ones . And I remember sitting in church . My husband likes to sit in the front row , which is good because I'm a really bad listener , so I'm always like God , if you will need to speak to me , I'm right up here , like they're very they're spitting on me from the stage .

Speaker 2 46:35

So I remember sitting there and we just started this like 12 , the attitude , you know , the random stuff , and it really feels for when those things pop up it feels like not your child for a minute . You know , not this sweet person you knew , but it is that's the beauty of it's like the pregnant lady , it is your wife , you know so . And I remember sitting there and whatever the pastor was saying . I was like , oh , because prior to that moment , ryan , I could not fathom my kids moving out of my house . I couldn't fathom it and the thought of it made me sick to my stomach . The thought of like ever that happening

Preparing for Kids Leaving the House

Speaker 2 47:07

made me ill . And then I was like , oh God , you so graciously prepare us for them leaving your house , because if this is what it's like for six more years , you're prepared . Like what if this is God's gift to us as mothers ? So them leaving isn't some horrific , heartbreaking , pivotal moment in our life that we can't recover from , because we've had six years of these little outbursts of attitude and individuation and all of that .

Speaker 2 47:33

I like to throw in big words , but I don't really know if that's the one I'm looking for . But what if that's just God's way of preparing us for them leaving , and I think it is , because now , even a year into this , like thousand time , I can see it , and not only can I see her moving out , and then the next one I'm excited for that . Like this is , this is what we're doing , it for right , like we have to sometimes . Like start with the end in mind , like I can visualize them like becoming mothers and spouses and whatever careers they choose , or none at all . Like now I can start to see it , and it's less about me , you know , and it's exciting and it's hard , but I want to . If I guess , if I'd never gotten to do hard again like I did when they're like five under five , you know , I might have missed it , and now I'm like , oh , I get another chance , I get another chance to do hard again . What are you most excited about right now ?

Speaker 1 48:23

right Gosh , I'm so excited about this conversation . I just love this . I love it . This is great and really I'm most excited about continuing to grow and flourish this community , to continue to speak with amazing people like you to . You know , really we talked about this before and we started recording to really start to step into my next step as a professional woman alongside my career as a mother . I feel like throwing up a little with thinking about my kids leaving the house . I I oftentimes can't like even fathom , but my oldest is eight , as you know , so it's just we're not there yet . I can wait a little bit . I can wait a little bit of time and I'm finding myself recently like very , very consciously going like I'm freezing this moment in time . They're eight , six and one and I am just soaking in the eight , six and oneness of it all because it's crazy and it's messy and it's so loud , but it's no , housekeeper can undo what they can do .

Speaker 2 49:38

No , no , no , no no , there's and .

Speaker 1 49:42

And the toddler , he's , he's just full like go mode , he's just boy all the way . I didn't get like the oh boys . I'm like no , my girls are pretty wild . No , he's a wild man . He's got the crayons . He says color , color , color . If there's a pencil or crayon or a pen around , you will see it on the wall , on the couch , on everywhere . We're like okay , this is why we don't have nice things yet . Yes , we'll get it there .

Speaker 2 50:09

This is also why our husbands buy randomly expensive grills that they don't use a lot , because this is their version of coloring , right , like they're still . We're still wild at heart . You know , egg , and I'm like how much more meter you're going to smoke ? I don't even eat me . Okay , we're going to smoke 10 pounds of meat today . Let's give it a go . That's great . Yeah , my neighbors , yeah , I love it . Oh , my gosh , thank you so much . This was such an honor , right , thank you . And the community , and I mean I think that the message you're sending to women is there's no wrong way , but do it Like , do take action , just keep taking action every day and trust the process and trust that what it is today won't be what it is tomorrow and especially a year from now . I love this .

Speaker 2 50:56

I listened to john wooden . He was a basketball coach . I listened to his maximums maximums which I'm guessing is just another word for quote . I don't know , but I listen to him all the time , and one of them he says is we overestimate what we can do in one year and we underestimate what we can do in five years . I'm attributing that to the right person , but anyways , whoever said it , you're brilliant , but that's , I think that's what I would say to any mother out there , especially if you have kids under seven , you you're going to overestimate what you can do in one year , but you are severely underestimating what you can do in five , you know so . So don't forget that and don't try to do in one year what really takes three to five , you know right .

Speaker 1 51:43

And don't forget to do in five years .

Speaker 2 51:46

I'm going to look back at yourself because I , five years from now , I look back where check has come , where check the center has come . I look back and what's happened in five years is mind blowing . And through the process it just felt like I was teaching another jump rope class . I'm like , oh my gosh , how much long , how much chess am I going to teach ? How much jump rope am I going to teach ? And now I look back with 23 women on staff and about to be seven or eight more , you know 30 women employ , 30 women on a part time basis around their families . I look back and I'm like that happened in five years . It needed every year at a time , but that happened in five years , you know , and I'm so glad I recognized . I don't actually I didn't recognize that . Whom I kidding ? I'm not that wise . I just didn't stop , you know . I just didn't stop .

Speaker 1 52:28

That's the yeah , yeah , I love how you just said . Like it's another jump rope class , it's another chess class , like it's like chop wood , carry water . I read that book , yes , so good yeah , that's like my solace in like the like , doing what needs to be done in the day , like water ladies , yeah , load , carry water and in five years you won't recognize yourself , your family , your marriage .

Speaker 2 52:52

It will be remarkably different . It will be remarkably good . You'll mourn other things , but just chop , load and carry water . I love that you put your podcast at work .

Speaker 1 53:02

I know , right , I'm going to Okay , so I'm going to do rapid fire . I ask everybody the same , just like three rapid fire questions at the end . So if you still have time , okay , okay , you ready , ready . What's bringing you joy today , my husband ? What are you reading if now , if anything ? Or what are you reading now , if anything ?

Speaker 2 53:22

I am always reading , just like you , three to five books . I'm most excited about zig zigglers how to raise positive kids in a negative world . I'm listening to it . I bought it on iTunes but it's more like it must have been like a conference or something he did . But you get it , I do so . Raising positive kids in a negative world zig ziggler .

Speaker 1 53:42

I'm going to put it on my list Next . I love that . And my last question is who are ? What have you learned the most from the Bible ?

Speaker 2 53:52

you know I mean everything I'm good at or anything I am , is because of my faith , and my faith in Jesus and the Bible and all my parenting and every book I read , usually success book sources the Bible as its source , its principles , its guy . I love the proverbs in the Bible , so if you've never had a Bible or it's not your thing , you can just read the book of proverbs . It's the book of wisdom that's had the largest influence on shaping me to be who God created me to be , which is the best version of him , because I believe he made me .

Speaker 1 54:29

What stage are you at in life ? Okay , so now we're going off the rapid fire just a teeny bit , but we're all . What stage are you at in life when you found that , like Salis in the Bible , salis in your faith ?

Speaker 2 54:39

Yeah , I was in my 20s , you know , and then from there it was a journey . So I learned about . I was raised in a family that went to church Christmas and Easter , but nothing really like resonated with me . And then my husband , you know , was really determined that we'd have a faith for our family and that's how we want to raise his children . So he slowly introduced me and then I made it my own .

Speaker 2 55:00

But , you know , even that has been let's , you know , maybe like a 1517 year journey , because when I became a Christian I didn't understand it , I didn't understand the Bible , I didn't understand the jokes , I didn't understand the language , I didn't understand the religion . Because , you know so , I've had , since I become a Christian , I've had my own , you know , religious hurts . They call them because that's inevitable , guys , but religious hurts are from people , they're not from God , you know . So we have to remember that , and so I would say that is one of those things you become , you know . So , when I am at my lowest point and I take out the Bible , it's my , it's my are . One of our pastors always says it's my playbook of life , you know so , it's all in there .

Speaker 2 55:43

My guiding verse for my kids is Galatians 522 and 23 , which talks about the fruits of the spirit being love , joy , peace , patience , kindness , goodness , faithfulness , gentleness and self control . You know those are all things . You know when I think about love and I wrote this down . You know . You see it at weddings . It's the super cheesy Bible verse at weddings , first Corinthians 13 . For what ? I use this with my kids . So I'm like , okay , so this is love and you and people women especially need to think about this . If you're a relationship in your life and you're like , does this person love me ? Well , the Bible is very clear about what love is and you can go right here . And so love is patient , it's not mind , it's not jealous , it doesn't brag , it isn't proud , it doesn't dishonor others , it's not self seeking , it's not easily angered , it keeps no record of wrong , it rejoices with truth , it always protects , it always trust , it always hopes and it always perseveres and it never fails . Now , that's God's love for us is all those things will never measure up . It's not relationships in your life , whether they're with women or your extended family . Some of us , it's our original family and you need a measuring stick for how you're being treated . You can find it right there and if those people aren't trying to attempt to live up to those things , then it's just not love . Guys , you know I'm sorry like that hurts , especially when it's our extended family , but anyways , that is my story .

Speaker 2 57:11

My faith started in my 20s and then it's developed and I'm 41 , and it just gets better and better . It's like my marriage the more I dive into it , the more I make it my own . And my goal for my children with our faith is I don't want to pass on our religion . I want to pass on my journey to teach them to make it their own journey . I want to pass on what Jesus has done for me and what our faith has done for me so that they can do it for them . So I'm very hesitant to push off on them . This is this , here's the Bible , girls , and God's going to help you make it your own , and that's what I do for them .

Speaker 1 57:45

Thanks for asking . I love talking about that too . Yeah , thank you so much . That's beautiful , so we had that the verse read at our wedding .

Speaker 2 57:55

We did Everybody does .

Speaker 1 57:56

Of course we did , and it lands differently now , 10 years later . You know , yeah , living it , it just it lands differently now . When it's a wedding , it's it . You know , a wedding is just so it's ceremonious , it's beautiful . It's not a marriage though . It's a celebration , it's an initiation . That's not a good point , brian . You know , we got a marriage . I love that , we got to live into it and we have to integrate it every day . Yeah , and when it's a love is not jealous .

Speaker 2 58:28

My husband and I experience a lot of jealousy towards each other . You know you don't think of that because , like , when women think of jealousy , we think of other women , right ? No , I'm . He just got a brand new Mercedes . I'm jealous . I'm jealous , I'm like you take the expedition and get it washed . He's like well , aren't you driving six kids to camp ? It's fine , they can squeeze that . I like the smell , you know .

Speaker 2 58:49

And last night , oh , just last night , I was jealous when I came home and I took it out on him . He , I took the kids to worship practice at church and it was moving night because it's summer , they want to make it all fun . So I was gone from the house for like five and a half hours . I come home and like what'd you do ? Like all like insinuating , like what'd you do ? I watched that movie . You know I've been wanting , you know , some like shoot him up , bang bang movie . I'm like , oh , is it good ? He's like , yeah , yeah , it was good . Well , just so , you know , I don't ever get to watch movies home alone , ever . That's me Like I'm 15 again , so we're just living it out .

Speaker 2 59:19

But you know that jealousy , I didn't realize how much . I'm jealous of his time alone . I'm jealous of his time in the car alone , you know ? I mean it's okay to have those feelings . It's just not okay to be not be aware of them . So we're not working on them , like it's not his

Jealousy and Love in Relationships

Speaker 2 59:33

fault . I went to worship practice with the kids . I volunteered to volunteer . Do you know what I mean ? It's ? It's being aware of those and being aware what love is , and love is not jealousy . So if I want to show love to my husband , that's not doing it , you know . And it's amazing how he doesn't feel loved when I come home , attacking him for sitting home on his couch eating Chipotle and watching a movie as if he did something wrong .

Speaker 1 59:57

I love that you brought into awareness too , like , oh , you know , that's the stuff . It's not that we're perfect , because it's never going to happen . It's that we realize when we're being the 15 year old , the seven year old , the 20 year , like we realize when we're , you know , just not in alignment with our highest self , exactly , exactly Well thanks for your time , Ryan .

Speaker 2 1:00:15

I'm super excited about your podcast .

Speaker 1 1:00:18

All right , this was beautiful and brilliant and wise and amazing . Yeah , yeah , yeah .